As much as I really admire their work.
IMHO the toads should be left alone.
But I'm also mostly vegan (I eat honey!), so...

If the substance can be that easily gotten by other means, I don't really see why one should bother the toads.

But as said, that's just me.
I surely respect, if other people see this differently.

I hear you. Way better for people to use synthetic (vegan) 5-MeO-DMT, toads have their own stuff to deal with without our meddling...having experienced both Bufo extract and synthetic pure 5-MeO-DMT, both get you to the same place (the pure stuff is very effective in doing so, and because of this is more of a precision instrument when dosing).

Still though not everyone resonates with this view, and some people take the silly view that only "organic" 5-MeO-DMT is valid. Either way I think it would be good to have this kind of work being conducted for the long term future of the toads.

At the risk of being a Debbie Downer (yet again), is there more information on this project? I haven't delved too deeply, but here are a few things that stand out to me right off the bat.

1) The funding request states "The Terra Incognita Project is now seeking funding for a second-stage study on the sustainability of the Bufo Alvarius (Alvarius Incilius) toad in the Sonoran desert of Arizona (building on data from our 2016 Mexican study)."

However, it then states "Funds raised will directly go towards logistical support for researchers to undertake this pilot study in August, 2017 and for analysis of skin and water samples of toads and their habitat."

So it sounds like the funds are going towards paying researchers and covering analytical costs. I'm personally unclear on what the analysis of "skin and water samples of toads and their habitats" has to do with understanding the sustainability of the toad in question. Actually, I'm rather unclear as to what it means to "study on the sustainability of the Bufo Alvarius (Alvarius Incilius) toad in the Sonoran desert of Arizona." Is this study focused on the sustainability of harvesting toads? Is this a study on ecological pressures on toads? It seems unclear from the information presented in this section of the write-up.

However, looking farther down in the write-up, it appears this is about "sustainable toad harvesting"...if such a thing is even possible. I'm curious as to why that isn't explicitly stated up front. Perhaps it was just an accidental omission? If so, it seems like a pretty glaring omission, to me.

Also, if this is the "second-stage" where is the information from the "first-stage?" Did I miss it?

2) The opening paragraphs here references a 2016 study. The TI website provides links to two "studies", however neither of them actually appears to be a "study" in the commonly-understood sense of the word, and neither of them appear to be peer-reviewed or published (which is fine, but does raise some questions). The 2016 writeup appears to be a loose abstract on "difficult reintegration experiences after receiving 5-MeO-DMT," and the 2015 writeup appears to be correspondence with an unknown chemist, relating the Nexus' critique of Octavio Rettig's claims re: bufo/5-meo conversions, and confirming the presence of 5-meo, but not bufo, in a sample of toad secretion.

I must say, I'm somewhat unclear as to how the proposed project builds on the 2016 investigation where TI



My understanding is that EEG (especially EEG by itself) is not particularly reliable for providing meaningful data in the contexts it's being utilized, but I'm no expert. I do remember "Dr. Juan" receiving quite a bit of criticism when he attempted to share his EEG results at Psychedelic Science 2013. But either way, I'm not clear on the link between this write-up and the "sustainable harvesting" being presented as the current focus of TI.

3) I find myself a bit ill-at-ease when someone states they want something to "feel inclusive" or "feel communal" or "feel non-hierarchical" as it implies, to me, that the reality of the structure is different than the feeling. I understand some may view this as nit-picky, but if a hierarchical organization exists (or an organization with an established leadership/research team in place) I'm more interested in the mechanisms through which they are proposing horizontality and accountability, rather than what the organization "feels" like.

Through what means do stakeholders and community members have any control/influence/say over how the organization chooses to act? If the answer is "none" (or something along the lines of "we will take that into consideration"), it seems to me that the organization is more interested in the appearance, facade, or feeling, rather than the actuality of the matter at hand. That said, I'm not familiar with TI and don't know what framework (if any) they have in place to actually promote such a structure (but a facebook group is not a mechanism to that end, imo).

4) I see a lot of buzz words (and references to studies) that seem a bit light on content. I would be more interested in what their vision of toad harvesting looks like, rather than hearing their long-term goal is "sustainable harvesting" (especially as they drop the harvesting in their opening paragraphs). Given the controversy that erupted around Rettig at one point, as well as the lack of engagement with the whole bufo/5-meo conversion claims and critiques, I'm curious as to what the motivation is here.

If sustainable acquisition of 5-meo-dmt is the question at hand, why not fund synthesis efforts? Would that not be the least destructive to the toad? If the goal is bufotenin, yet there is no bufotenin in the secretions, why mess with the toad at all?

I'm not trying to bash this effort, but I think these are fairly significant/essential questions with regards to the institution at hand and efforts/goals presented.

Some good points Mr SnozzleBerry.

Do you mind if I share your post on the 5-Hive forum in reply to the original post concerning this? That way I can put this to Rak there and hopefully we can get some feedback.

Please do

Cool, have done so. Will chime in here if/when I hear back.