So we all know in a state of depression one shouldn't go to psychedelics.

Some might say you shouldn't go to drugs at all. But you know we do, our culture does. Most everyone goes to alcohol, or tobacco, or cannabis in times of depression. I think done with a bit of intelligence it can be very helpful, just people tend to go to not good drugs (alcohol).

Tobacco I think can be an anti-depressant if consumed regularly. I personally suspect nicotine addiction has a lot to do with people using it as an anti-depressant. I actually personally use tobacco for this reason and find it to be very ideal, and very predictable. I suspect that tobacco has actually been man's standard antidepressant for ages, and that's why it's use is so intertwined with humans.

Very specific kinds of cannabis I think can be very useful if done in certain ways. Such as smoking the head trip, more psychedelic strains, then meditating in solitude. But this can be unpredictable, and someone I think needs to know how to meditate to actually get benefit out of this for depression.

Alcohol however seems to be the primary go to drug for depression and I think this stupid because it doesn't really do any thing good for depression.

So of the three primary go to drugs for depression. I think one is really just useless (alcohol), the other can be good in very specific unpredictable circumstances (cannabis) and then the other I think is good, but its effect is ultimately mild (tobacco).

So it makes me wonder, has anyone stumbled upon drugs that they have found are really good for going to in states of depression? Drugs that don't really just mask the problem, make you more dumb, like alcohol, but actually aid in getting to it's core, actually have some lasting positive effect? Or are the type of thing that can consumed regularly for effect (tobacco).

Also could you describe how it aids, and what kind of depression it aids? Also how predictable is it?

For me personally I find nitrous oxide has an incredible anti-depressant effect. Notably in the area of ruminating. When I get into one of those mental states where I just can't think positively, where I am just running around in my mind thinking so many negative things. Where I get stuck in negative thoughts. It doesn't help with just general feelings of sadness, but specifically with turning around ruminating, the running around in negative thoughts in your head. Literally just like 2 to 4 balloons and it just completely changes my perspective, just yanks my head out of the shit, permanently, until I get more shit in it again. It is also very predictable for me, it has never failed to not do this. Nitrous oxide does however pose a big risk to people with addictive personalities. I don't have an addictive personality, I can have 2 or 4 balloons, clear my head, and be done and good.

The other one is ginseng. Notably red chinese panax ginseng, it is important to get exactly that as different ginsengs do different things. I also find this tends to not affect females very much for whatever reason, males respond much more instensely to it. But ginseng is essentially a non-toxic stimulant. If ever I have just general feelings of sadness, I find that taking a stiff dose of ginseng. Like just chewing on a chunk of root for a few hours, it just kind pushes through any blockages or whatever is going on to return me to normal energy levels. It also has a lasting effect, where I basically spend one day chewing down a root of ginseng, then it will leave me in a more ideal state permanently, until I get drug down again. This is very predictable for me, and also as I understand safe to do, supposedly it's very healthy for your body.

Ketamine is spectacular for treating depression right at the root.
leaves me feelin' good for a week or so afterwards

I've never had ketamine.

But I assume, from things I've heard, does it have a similar dynamic to nitrous oxide in this matter?

Ketamine is good for during and post-trip work, with a real separation from the ego allowing you to rationally look at yourself (and not spiral into OH SELF JUDGEMENT!) as is possible on "classic" psys.

Also just room to be silly and fun, and leaves you feeling light-hearted afterwards as long as you don't K-hole and end up kneeling and praying to god for forgiveness..hehe..

its a trickyo ne, i wouldnt' reccomend it to many, and if they want to use it theraputicly for depression 50-100mg every three or four days for a week or two would be the MAXIMUM..

at least for me anyways.

Perhaps that's a big part of the reason that Ketamine is so addictive?


I've only tried it twice myself, in reasonably humble amounts.
This is not my kind of drug. It is a powerfull dissociative;
As such it disconnects your consciousness from your body and your mind.
This way the depression of the mind is temporarily forgotten. It seems gone.

But it's just disconnected and in time, if your thought patterns and lifeview haven't changed, that depression-pattern will reassert itself. So it really only temporarily fights the symptoms.

I find that Psychedelics, especially Mushrooms, LSD & DMT, can lead you to the ROOT
of many of your problems; enabling you to diagnose the thought-patterns & beliefs that
lead to given psychological & behavioural problems & change them(Read: Destroy them & rebuild them in a new, healthier way that won't allow for the same problems to return)





BUT to answer the question of this Topic:
I am a pretty constant smoker of Cannabis. Unfortunately I am also addicted to Tobacco.
I find Cannabis a great medication against psychological & physical types of unrest, which I experience alot. This general psychological & physical restlessness often leads my awareness
completely out of my body leading to a disturbed cyrcadian rythm; My appetite becomes severely reduced and irregulair and so do my sleeping patterns. I can hardily eat and hardily sleep. My thoughts race with such speed even i cannot follow them. Sometimes it speeds up so much I can only hear a high pitch rush which sometimes turns into a high pitch tone,seemingly comming from the back of my brain, just above the temporal lobe. I can actually HEAR it. Like tinnitus, but LOUDER and from the back of my brain. Much like many of us frequently experience when travelling hyperspace after smoalking spice.

If this unrest, and the disturbances it causes, lasts long enough I will become depressed, frustrated, paranoid & slightly psychotic. In the worst case I can remember one such episode lasted 7 months where I on average slept only 3 hours per night. At the end I was getting pretty loopy. Luckily such extremes are rare for me, but the unrest is almost present on a dayly basis.

Cannabis helps me staying more balanced, slightly "rounding off" the rough edges of the unrest. Slowing down my thoughts to the point I can follow them again, IF I choose to.
This way Cannabis helps me have a more peacefull mind during the day, sleep at night &
it also stimulates an appetite: 3 birds with 1 stone.

I shouldn't smoke too much Cannabis. I know this will serve to increase Depression & Paranoya. But if I smoke just the right amounts, with just the right frequency,
Cannabis turns out to be an outstanding medicine to counter my unrest.

mushrooms.
probably not the most common of choices, but ime it's certainly effective

agree with the above post by Parshvik. in fact i think all psychedelics are extremely useful for depression so long as you are willing to be open to their teaching ...and are taking it for the teaching not the escape..

I think, like shadowman-x, the dissociatives which diminish NMDA receptor function have a clear antidepressant action thats very very useful if used with the respect and consideration this class of compound requires, to get the best from them whilst avoiding the negatives.

IME, the disso headspace is emotionally alot less charged than the classic psychs, and I find that one can work with it in a way that mirrors the intention more predictably.MXE in particular I found a very useful substance and ,for me, with a measured approach to it, 25mg still is a fulfilling dose.

In regards to ketamine, this paper has just been published in CNS Spectrums.

Good article, Vodsel; many thanks for highlighting this.

Methinks MXE is eminently worthy of formal studies; as you can probably tell, I have been very very impressed with its effects, both therapeutic and otherwise.

I used Ketamine to get out of a deep depression and it worked. But I was quickly addicted as I saw it as the key to avoiding unhappiness. It is more like the key to avoiding having a body or emotions. [not a very natural state] It is very seductive and is often called "psychedelic heroin". A true escape.

If you're gonna use it make sure its VERY sparingly [I've heard of unbreakable addictions forming from once every other week use] and you don't have a source to get it alot or you will be tempted.

A drug that has always given me what I needed for depression [without the addictiveness or bodily damage of ketamine] was harmalas and caapi.

Taking a bit of harmalas a few hours before bed always leaves me feeling fresher the next morning and like all my problems are melting away because I see through them and it helps get to their false root and pull it out. Caapi is very similar maybe even better.

I like taking harmalas orally 30-50mg once in a while 100mg. Caapi leaf tea or smoking a bowl of caapi will do the same thing.

Combined with cannabis they can be a POTENT anti-depressant and even a euphoriant.

I like that very much. I can't say I have had a depression in a long time. Moods and brooding, yes! But not a depression.

That said, the next time any storm clouds anchor above my head will reach for the mushroom jar in just the way you specify.

Good man!

Its ultimately up to you.... but in times of great stress and depression.... I chose to smoke a little bit of cannabis on top of my tobacco not enough to get you stoned cold but enough to heighten your senses and thoughts.....

Then I blast this classic into my ears......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3LEDrza_Q


and proceed to go for a walk or bike ride during a day of sunshine...

DMT can also be extremely useful if your will is to work with it in this way, as it is a little more direct and in my experience more intimate. generally I think that if you aren't bringing your own selfish agenda to the plant teachers (other than to listen to what they have to tell you with an open heart) then a lot will be gained and you can get to the roots of a lot of issues

I wasn't aware of ketamine's antidepressant qualities. very interesting

"So we all know in a state of depression one shouldn't go to psychedelics."

This is said often, and I disagree. Mushrooms and cannabis are the things that freed me from some deep depression. I have taken cacti, mushrooms, ayauhuasca and salvia divinorum as medicine teachers to help heal myself during times of depression and it has always been the best action to take for me.

In the west we have this sort of sterile version of using these medicines at times. They are real medicines in my opinion and the traditional paradigms of use I find more closely reflect that.

The real problem I can see is that people will try to escape into these things during depression or w/e and not truly be committed to the experience and the medicine path. It is never a one time deal in my experience, and you cant expect it all to happen in a 6 hour period and then just end. It does not seem to work that way. It is a process and this is what we lack in the west.

daily caapi tea and some form of dmt or mushrooms work better for me than anything else

especially if i'm eating good, exercising, spending time in nature, and doing yoga/meditation a lot

Where did you get that idea? Psychedelics are some of the best antidepressants in existence. There are studies coming out of Johns Hopkins that show that magic mushrooms can be incredibly beneficial to people experience depression and anxiety associated with death, and increasing outlook and mood more generally.

I can speak to experience on this one: I suffered from crippling depression for most of my life, and found relief in the form of an incredibly spritual and beautiful magic mushroom trip. Years of fear and dread evaporated in the face of the beauty of creation.

It's alcohol and opiates you want to avoid when you're depressed. Serotonergic psychedelics are a godsend (in my view)

Blessings
~ND

To treat somebody for depression using mushrooms.... What dosage would you recommend? And why?

Would you recommend a 5 grams breakthru dose and let the elves do the talking? Or, a small dose 1.5, 3 grams?

I'm asking this bc my wife has an aunt with severe depression and she wants to help her. (Her Aunt has never taking psychedelics before)

And my wife says that taking 5 grams is a lot easier and more effective than taking a small dose. (With smaller dosages all she gets is anxiety)

I find low dose psilocybin to be very effective for bouts of
Depression . Caapi tea also helps alot .

It's all part of a maintenance routine for me .
Including vitamin d as well . Sometimes even a moderate dose
Of mushrooms can put depression at bay for many days to weeks .

I'm not a doctor and there is no body of literature about how to best use mushrooms as an antidepressant (there's that whole legality-thing that makes it hard), so all I can do is tell you what works for me.

When I feel like depression is really starting to weigh on me again, I generally do 2 grams, outside on a nice day with between two and four other people whom I really trust. While they are out tripped and having a great time, I will stay a little b