I found this link being spread on facebook.
Quite a nice, well written article about Entheogens & Religious persecution/freedom.
I thought it would fit nicely here in the CEL-board.

Enjoy :
http://cognitivelibertyu...sychedelic-spirituality/

This is EXACTLY the kind of coverage spiritual psychedelic use needs right now. I am happier then words can describe right now, having read this.

I highly recommend that anyone who is at all 'out of the closet' about psychedelic drug use, share this with as many people as they can.

I also feel like this could go in the General Discussion forum. It might get more traffic (and therefore more shares) there.

These sort of things always make me feel like maybe, everything is going to be ok.

Exactly what I thought. Finally this ludacris war on drugs has been exposed & explained for
what it really is. And I couldn't have worded it better myself. Much respect to whoever wrote it.

Another thing, rather a place, that gives me hope is this:
www.wasiwaska.org

If I ever get out of this financial sewer and save up some money,
I'll go to Brazil and I will defenitely make a stop there.


There are so many "DMT drugbust here" and "MHRB made illegal there"-posts it is quite
demoralising to the cause of Entheogenic Freedom. Sure, we must know the harsh truths to
be weary and up to date with the harsh reality, but let's not forget to work together and focus on the solutions to this dreadfull problem that has endured for far too long now.

I think the claiming of Religious freedom, as the article I posted also suggested, is so far the best strategy that serious psychonaughts have to be who they are in honousty, freedom & peace, without constant fear of mercyless persecution.

Time after time I hear alot of resistance towards this idea, mainly from the more scientifically inclined minds. But really this is no time to be divided, being in the position we are. I understand opposition to the idea of Traditional Religious organisations:
I share in that opposition, but who says we have to found a Religious movement that is Traditional? Who sais we need dogmas to control every little aspect of life?

Perhaps we could found a Religious movement that recognises & respects variety in people's lifestyles and individual freedoms. Perhaps the conditions(not rules) of our Religion could only be in a shared belief in and practice of the Responsible & Beneficial use of Psychedelic plants & compounds. Our Religious manifest/book could focus around our collective, spiritually/psychologically healing/growth catalysing use of Psychedelics, but doesn't have to be a dogmatic manual on how to interpret & live every detail of one's life, as unfortunately is the case with pretty much all existant Religious scriptures.

Perhaps some basic moral code could be included, but it could be a most free Religion that values Variety and doesn't strive for absolute uniformity. Wouldn't it be great if we could exempt responsible Psychonauts from persecution & while we're at it broaden the legal defenition of "Religion".

Thank you SKA for the link

This sounds likes a good idea, we would need to come up with a good name for it, something that sticks but also sounds respectful... something that says "we're not just here to goof off and be silly, we're here to explore spirituality". I agree that it shouldn't be a dogmatic manual, instead I think it should be something like a tool which one can use to better interpret psychedelic experiences, like a guide book which tells you ways to better prepare (mentally, spiritually, etc.) for the journey, and ways to incorporate it into everyday life.

Perhaps a basic moral code should be included, it can include things like: never dose anyone with anything without their explicit consent, look for ways to help others even when nothing is expected in return, meditate often, etc. It should also include a list of info for anyone who is sitting for the psychonauts.

overall I like this idea

What happens when your an atheist nor view entheogen use as a "spiritual, mystical or divine" state of being. Are we just to be considered as "hedonists" and not allowed to use these plants and compounds to further advance our enjoyment of life???

Why does religious/spiritual use trump curiosity and experience???

I've never said that atheist use of entheogens must by defenition be hedonistic.
It depends on you and your interpretation of Atheism. Does your Atheism imply you
do not believe in the existance of consciousness? Because such a belief might make
"expanding consciousness" a bit pointless. If you do recognise the existance of
Consciousness, doesn't that make you, at least a bit, Spiritual-minded afterall?

I often feel many Atheists secretly harbour spiritual beliefs, but are generally in denial about these beliefs. I mean, you MUST have some spiritual beliefs if you see the benefit in
smoalking DMT. I would define the belief in Consciousness as a spiritual belief, because Consciousness has allways eluded Scientific measurement/detection. There is no analytic proof of Conssciousness. So if you want to expand consciousness, you must therefor believe in the existance of Consciousness; Which is an unconscious confession of you that you harbour Spiritual beliefs despite thinking of yourself as an "atheist".

Ahh the paradoxes of Atheism

What some call a spiritual experience, the more scientific minds might call a "Psychologically Therapeutical experience". Eitherway, both Spiritual-minded & Scientific-minded people can agree that this experience, that is 1 and the same experience, is beneficial to Psychological Health.

So does it matter what you call it? Well maybe it does, but only in legal terms.

Wether you're a destructive hedonist can be answered simply. Do you merely use
Entheogens recreationally? Or do you see a deeper, more serious purpose for them, such as Psycho-therapy or Spiritual healing? (Which are really 2 names for 1 and the same thing)
Do you use Entheogens to become more grounded in Reality? Or do you use them to escape from Reality?

Comming down to the simple question: Do you use Entheogens to expand awareness? Or to narrow awareness?


And wether Scientific-minded or Spiritual-minded, don't you agree there ought to be some moral code to prevent destructive, abusive hedonists from entering the Psychonaut community & bringing it to shame(basically proving drug-prohibitionists right)? What if we could found a non-dogmatic, spiritual movement and get recognition & protection? I would personally like to see it as an Ideology, but if the term "Religion" pleases the Legal system, so be it. We could erect Temples & have meetings at which we ingest Entheogens collectively, while making music & having silent meditations: Don't tell me that this doesn't interrest you?
This absolutely makes sense if you are a Psychonaut. And if you were REALLY that Atheist, you wouldn't be a Psychonaut. Why explore and expand that which you don't believe exist?
But let's not turn this into an Atheist/Spiritualist debate.

I think we should really stop dividing ourselves on the Spiritualist/Scientific-duality.
I mean look at us Psychonauts now: Scared pack of rats trying to hide underground. It almost seems to confirm the Drug-Prohibitionist's propaganda to demonise us as mindless, wreckless hedonists. I'm pretty sick of having to live the Entheogenic part of my life like that.
I take pride in it and I wish to hide it no longer.

Let's not forget, fellow Psychonauts: United we stand, Divided we fall.

I think defining Psychedelics as spiritual is mostly a negative. Ann Shulgin said something like (paraphrased), "Psychedelics cause spiritual experiences, whether the user defines it as such or not," and she is very correct. Prior to consuming psychedelics I was born-and-bred Atheist; however, quantum psychics was a regular dinner-table conversation. I was interested in the concept of consciousness, but it wasn't until I tried LSD that I truly realized the relationship between consciousness and empirical experience.

However I think generally by defining psychedelics as spiritual we cause this great divide between psychonauts and the religious community who wants their beliefs to be considered more special than simple "drug-trips." Drugs aren't illegal because hedonists are "proving drug-prohibitionists right." Quite the contrary I believe they are illegal (only by a fraction, the list of reasons is actually huge) because people have tried to define them as a religion in the past - and failed.

It's a fine line between using spirituality to further your own cause and actually being spiritual. Timothy Leary pissed off a lot of priests who had a lot of power. I have a pretty low opinion of Leary for that ... while High Priest was interesting, and Ginsberg is a genious ... it just made the already crumbling institution of religion feel incredibly threatened.

I almost want to just ditch the word spiritual entirely because I think it does more harm than good. I genuinely believe that Psychedelics are illegal in part because the religious community feels they might overshadow their scheme. They see personal spirituality as a threat.

I won't tell you "this doesn't interest me," but I truly believe forming a "non-dogmatic, spiritual movement and get recognition & protection" is both impossible (any "spiritual movement" recognized by law must be dogmatic) and counter-intuitive to our real struggle: personal freedom.

Just 2 coppers.

...........Religious use of psychedelics......

this is OK for the government.

Yet scientific, rational use for healing depression, other neuroses and addictions is ILLEGAL.

It is illegal to do it in Harvard, but a preacher of a christian church can do it.

I doubt that a Zen master would be able to use them, no cross, no god, no spirit... then it must be pure evil......lol......so scary isn't it.

Can we get out of this "religous" aspcect, and grow as much as we can*want*need.

The thing I was trying to get across is that why should entheogen use just be excused within the confines of spiritual or religious use?(as per the title of this thread) Why shouldn't they belong to everyone whether religiously inclined or not?

I take entheogens for the experience, whether or not my journeys have a "religious/spiritual" aspect at the time has no bearing. They haven't changed my views on religion or spirituality, its the experience that gives my life quality.

Tho I do suppose that the religiospirituists would view entheogen experiences with a religiospirituist slant, I however do not.

As for etheogenic temples - thats just NOT my set and setting. In no way would that interest me as a viable construct. Limiting or excusing etheogen use to a religiospiritual setting is divisive and not a worthy cause in my view. Educating and informing the general populace that entheogens can have a good effect on society as a whole and not just for the religious elite is a more worthy endeavor.

Im in the "grow as much as we can,want,need" camp

You guys raise good points, however, in a practical sense, defining it in terms of religious freedom seems to me like a MUCH more viable way to make legalization happen.

Maybe turning entheogens into a religious tool is not the BEST way to do it, but I think it's way more likely to succeed then "let us do psychedelic drugs because we want to and think we have the right." Cocaine users probably feel the same way.

I see acceptance of spiritual psychedelic use as a stepping stone towards mainstream acceptance. Sort of like acclimating a plant to a new environment, given time, the public perception will change as it becomes apparent that not all psychedelic users are whacked-out schizophrenics, and THEN we can take start working on broader legalization.

It's like medical marijuana. The public was introduced to semi-legal marijuana as medicine only, and, just like you guys are saying here, a lot of marijuana users had problems with that because they wanted wide-range acceptance immediately. Now, however, the public opinion has changed because we've gotten used to semi-legal weed and total legalization is starting to be brought to the table.

Had the marijuana activists just spent the last ten years fighting for total legalization only, I think we'd be in a very different place.

DPT, Peyote and DMT already enjoy such a situation. I get what you're saying, but I don't think the government will buy it.

If they did the restrictions on who could be a member will be absolutely crippling - I don't think they'll let us pursue personal spiritual discovery at intentional gatherings .... It will have to be ritualized to the point where it loses most of it's beauty IMHO. I respect ritual, but not in the way the government desires it to be defined.

I think the most useful argument is the pragmatic approach. The drug war is failed and is RAPING your pocket books guys ... think of the $$$ you'd save if you just stopped babysitting everyone. Think of how little harm you are preventing by prohibition. Educate, but let people do to themselves what they will.

I strongly believe that is the only argument that's going to work. I'm a Gracie & Zarkov fanboy, but I think they were several decades ahead of everyone on this:

http://www.erowid.org/cu..._and_zarkov_article2.pdf

Can't we make use of DMT as a practice in Pantheism?



huh??? Where did that suggestion come from?

I recognize consciousness, as I believe everyone of us on Earth also does.... but this has nothing to do with spirituality for me. Also, when you feel many Atheists habour secret spiritual beliefs, do you mean "beliefs in supernatural"?

DMT smoalking pantheist here

I was an atheist for years even after using psychedelics regularly over that time. Later on, I had a single experience with DMT that completely reshaped my entire worldview. That is really the only psychedelic experience I have ever had that I can 100% honestly describe as feeling religious/spiritual.

It is strange to me that some people seem to be have these experiences much more frequently, perhaps the majority of the times they take psychedelics while others rarely experience them if at all.

I'm sure much of it has to do with the subjectivity of the term "spiritual". Personally, psychedelics opened the doors to yoga/meditation (which I previously never would have considered doing) as well as helping me strive towards living a better life in general. This likely never would have happened if it weren't for that singular DMT experience.

^Interesting nexusdisciple, your experience resonates very strongly with mine. And interesting indeed how some people appear more wired towards having spiritual experiences with psychedelics than others, but I guess the subjectivity of the term does indeed play a big part in this.

Man, great article and so very true on many levels. The part where drunken slothness compared to the phycs community is defiantly, if not should be an eye opener to anyone! How can going to the club getting drunk driving home with the possibility of killing someone is a good time?!!? You gotta drive to get to the damn bar, then drive home!! After you drank!! So who benefits from this ordeal? Then they arrest you for going out and doing something that is "allowable". Acting like a fool and being belligerent doesn't sound like fun. Idk, unless the majority can see this, we will be stuck with this until its realized by the masses.

My shiny two cents...

Namaste,
---dls---

People.should be able.to ingest whatever they so wish into their own bodies. No government ,religion,or other group of would be tyrants ,has the right to decide what any free human being does with their body and mind. Be it cocaine ,heroin,alcohol,peyote,DMT,or ayahuasca.

Life is a journey. People will misuse or be irresponsible with chemicals its how it is. Education is the onky thing that will prevent this somewhat. I'm truly an advocate of free humanity. And when I see discussions like this in which a group of people think their way of using these substances should be permitted while use in other ways should still be controlled I get sick to my stomache.

Here we are trying to get a group of people to let us use the substance we want yet st the same time tour going to erect s new body of tyrants that says to the rest of the people ,you have no right to use DMT unless it is in a way we approve of.

I agree with use for rekigous purposes. And if thats are way in and first step towards total legalization I'm all for it.

I hope to have a spiritual experience on these chemicals. It sounds like the greatest experience one can have in life. But I would never tell another human being they have no right to do what they wish as long as they aren't harminfn others. Which we have laws for already.

Its your body do as you please ..

Lets face it, not everybody knows what's good for themselves. Whether they are uneducated or just don't care, it creates a problem for you and me. What if you lost someone to that dui because of irresponsibility? What then? I care enough about my family and friends to worry about others stupidity that could affect my own sense of being. Its better than shrugging and saying "O'Well" and you yourself not caring. I had a cocaine problem, was my choice to do it. But I would never wish it on my worst enemy or any addiction. It was easier when there wasn't cars, where you had to walk to the bar, now your driving a 2000 pound car that could crush almost anything at 50 mph? IDK, seems bad to me. Lots of people just need to be educated on what could happen, not what may, as people will continue to do what they wish.

Just need to be responsible, and not everybody is....

Peace,
---dls---

Right not everyone is responsible. And you can't legislate away problems. I think the drug war proves that.

And like I said we already have laws to punish bad behavior. If you can't use substances responsibly and you break laws that are already in place to deal with that you get punished. I had a bad heroin and coke addiction and I broke a lot of laws because of it. But just because I couldn't use those substances in moderation and without commuting crimes doesn't mean someone else can.

People are going to commit crimes.people are going to drink a drive and hurt people. Its sucks its sad but its going to happen and laws won't prevent it. Some people are in a bad spot in life and just don't care. I've been there so I know. But I've changed my life as can anyone that gets sick of that lifestyle and feeling so hopeless.

My girl is kind of weird about my use of entheogens but she has no issue with opiates and stimulants. Weird I think but whatever I suppose. I find these drugs self regulate their use. Don't cause addictive behaviors , and can usher in experiences so profound one would be a fool to miss out on in life. But hey that's my opinion. These molecules are intense. I fear them yet I'm intrigued as I've been very far out there yet I know DMT offers access to even farther depths.

I say legalize and educate. Everyone is entitled to experienceing these things. Not just the ones who are self proclaimed gurus because they've had a mind blowing exoeince.

If there was some way to educate the mass on these substances, there would be a higher understanding with it, loss, tragedy, but the problem is "how to go about it" and nobody can do that, and I understand that as well, the guilt from accidents is a way of life. How to cope with a situation you may have inflicted is interpitation, it is a cosmic web now we get down to it, ignorance leads to others suffering, to that they need to find a strength to get through even though it wasn't deserved. The ones who caused it need to feel the guilt for what they have done as I was one of them before, I have never hurt anybody (physically cause of my actions) but, Life is unfair and I know that first hand, but to take a caring heart to the ones that don't know anything else