DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 42 Joined: 14-Feb-2009 Last visit: 14-Apr-2009 Location: right here
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Don't know how much information you guys would be able to relay to me and anybody else that might read this, but decided to ask anyway.
I want to start taking milk thistle, primarily because
1)I eat kratom 2-3x daily 4-6g a time
2)I like kava kava
3)I am a tobacco smoker
4)i enjoy a beer or two on rare occasions
5)I work as an electronics repair technician, and i burn solder all day long, and use chemicals on occasion, possible heavy metal exposure, and burning plastic, etc.
I know i need to quit a couple things, but not my point of topic here.
I read that... "Indeed, in recent experiments using milk thistle and human liver cells, the researchers found that relatively small concentrations of milk thistle did significantly slow down the activity of the liver enzyme CYP3A4 by 50% to 100%."
And also i do not know and can not find much other information regarding interactions and experiences. Thank you for any information you guys can come up with.
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tryptamine photographer
Posts: 760 Joined: 01-Jul-2008 Last visit: 14-Jan-2025
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I recommended milkthistle to an alcoholic friend of mine who started to show liver damage. She later told me her doctor was very surprised by the recovery of her liver.
But this is just one case, not scientific research... I don't want to jump to conclusions.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 136 Joined: 23-Jul-2013 Last visit: 17-Jul-2024
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Decided to bump this thread cause Milk Thistle (Sylibum Marianum) is possibly very interesting. I read the appendix of Garden of Eden and there was this closing remark that Milk Thistle is very handy to have. So I investigated a bit and found out that it seems to be very effective in preventing liver damage. Usually taken when someone has consumed alcohol to prevent hangover the next day, it's possibly also interesting when using psychedelics. Especially those that are a little toxic. Anyway I have bought a tincture and am experimenting some with it. But one things caught my interest, namely that it's claimed to inhibit cytochrome P450, meaning that it will make you less able to metabolize a host of compounds. Like kratom, kava kava and iboga are the ones I know for sure. But a lot prescription medications as well. So I found this study: Quote:The effects of milk thistle (Silybum marianum) on human cytochrome P450 activity.
Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) extracts are widely used as a complementary and alternative treatment of various hepatic conditions and a host of other diseases/disorders. The active constituents of milk thistle supplements are believed to be the flavonolignans contained within the extracts. In vitro studies have suggested that some milk thistle components may significantly inhibit specific cytochrome P450 (P450) enzymes. However, determining the potential for clinically significant drug interactions with milk thistle products has been complicated by inconsistencies between in vitro and in vivo study results. The aim of the present study was to determine the effect of a standardized milk thistle supplement on major P450 drug-metabolizing enzymes after a 14-day exposure period. CYP1A2, CYP2C9, CYP2D6, and CYP3A4/5 activities were measured by simultaneously administering the four probe drugs, caffeine, tolbutamide, dextromethorphan, and midazolam, to nine healthy volunteers before and after exposure to a standardized milk thistle extract given thrice daily for 14 days. The three most abundant falvonolignans found in plasma, following exposure to milk thistle extracts, were silybin A, silybin B, and isosilybin B. The concentrations of these three major constituents were individually measured in study subjects as potential perpetrators. The peak concentrations and areas under the time-concentration curves of the four probe drugs were determined with the milk thistle administration. Exposure to milk thistle extract produced no significant influence on CYP1A2, CYP2C9, CYP2D6, or CYP3A4/5 activities. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25028567Now my question is has anyone did some experimenting with milk thistle and how did it work for you?
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Another Leaf on the Vine
Posts: 554 Joined: 29-Jul-2013 Last visit: 26-Aug-2023
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There's a good summary of available info hereIncludes the following important, and generally unexpected, observation: Quote:Milk Thistle may attenuate the growth of hepatic carcinomas, which is abolished and potentially reversed with coingestion of alcohol (suggesting the trifecta of Alcohol, Milk Thistle, and preexisting carcinoma may augment growth according to one study) “I sometimes marvel at how far I’ve come - blissful, even, in the knowledge that I am slowly becoming a well-evolved human being - only to have the illusion shattered by an episode of bad behaviour that contradicts the new and reinforces the old. At these junctures of self-reflection, I ask the question: “are all my years of hard work unraveling before my eyes, or am I just having an episode?” For the sake of personal growth and the pursuit of equanimity, I choose the latter and accept that, on this journey of evolution, I may not encounter just one bad day, but a group of many.”
― B.G. Bowers
ॐ
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 552 Joined: 08-May-2012 Last visit: 01-Nov-2024
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All I know is if I take milk thistle before going to bed after heavy drinking, I am less hungover the next day, that should say a lot. Also, there is a lot of journal papers that say that MT heals livers, a lot of articles. Meditate before you venture, take it seriously, use it as medicinal—it is good psychotherapy if needed. Realize that you, the Earth, others, and the Universe are all one and the same process. Then take that knowledge back to become, as you already are, one with nature. Eternity in every moment. Divinity in every particle. All is one organism.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 557 Joined: 12-Jul-2012 Last visit: 01-Jan-2021
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It also has quite pretty flowers  And it increases milk production... but only in girls (a friend was disappointed  )
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Novice Apprentice of ENTHEON Wizardry
Posts: 107 Joined: 26-Mar-2013 Last visit: 04-Feb-2019
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DisEmboDied wrote:All I know is if I take milk thistle before going to bed after heavy drinking, I am less hungover the next day, that should say a lot. Also, there is a lot of journal papers that say that MT heals livers, a lot of articles. For me, after heavy drinking, 1000mg of Iboprofen and 1 liter of water before bed, I would have little to no hangover. For what that is worth. Sometimes a simple analogy is all you need to make things crystal clear. Smile - Akasha224
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 136 Joined: 23-Jul-2013 Last visit: 17-Jul-2024
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Wow I am really fascinated about this plant! This extract I have is a tincture and have been using it for a few days now. But it's hard to determine it's effect from mere selfobservations. I would need to ingest some amount of alcohol I guess.
But, as for applications with psychdelics, could it help to relieve some of the side-effects from say HBWR, like the nausea? And for that matter how about Syrian Rue, it too is a bit toxic I suppose from my experience. So I wonder if it would be any help to ingest prior and after these (and who knows what other) psychedelics.
It's cheap btw...
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 06-Feb-2025 Location: Jungle
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Ive taken a bit of some alcoholic tincture just for the sake of it, but I dont have liver damage nor anything... Didn't feel anything, but I guess I wasn't supposed to.
It grows all over the place here, flowers in early spring, by late spring/early summer it already has the seeds. Highest concentration of silymarin is in the seeds.
Apparently whole plant is edible, but I didn't try eating it yet.. Next year I'll do that. I did collect a bunch of seeds though. Wonder for how long they are good for.
One typical look alike is the Cirsium vulgare, but milk thistle has whiteish patterns on the leaves, while Cirsium vulgare leaves are all green.
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DMT-Nexus member
 
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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you can boil the roots to eat as a starchy tuber. Long live the unwoke.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 136 Joined: 23-Jul-2013 Last visit: 17-Jul-2024
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I read the whole plant is usable as edible vegetable and was used so in the past when there was nothing else available.
Seen these plants in the wild as well and next time I come across will going to harvest some. Am interested in making tinctures myself so this is a good start.
But as for it benefits to show it needs someone with liver trouble and appareantly I do have some, no real damage as far I can tell. But my liver does hurt sometimes, can feel it very distinctly. I can also feel my kidneys at times, but the liver is far more pronounced to discern.
It's mostly stress but this has a profound effect on the liver I've learned, so it may be helpful for me to ingest it for a period and see what happens. That's what attracted me to it in the first place.
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