Hello!

OK, so yesterday I had a mind-shredding Caapi Ayahuasca experience, with 7g of MHRB and 120-130g of white vine. I now have two of, what I know now to be, very good doses left, which I am saving. So that will be at least a couple of days.

However, I have lots of spare MHRB juice, and 10g of Syrian Rue seeds. Now, I have never tried these seeds, but from what I have gathered, they are to be treated with caution.

What would be a good starter dose, considering I am now 'over the hump' and fairly comfortable with the caapi route? I want a definate (not background) experience, that doesnt have me cackling like a mad person for hours on end.

Also, having only had Aya yesterday, would it be safe again to journey tonight?


Namaste.

you can drink every night for the next year if you like..seriousily..there is no tolerance to ayahuasca or rue based brews. This is something you cannot get away with with mushrooms, LSD or cacti etc..this is one reason why ayahausca is unique..I have drank every day for a like a week before without negative side effects or any tolerance..if anything there is reverse tolerance. I also take daily microdoses of caapi with a bit of mimosa and have done so for months.

Mushrooms 2 days in a row I have done many times but it starts to wear you down..that is not the case with ayahuasca IME..you might feel tired though if you are up real late..but other than that I have never expereinced side effects. Ayahuasca is like a supplement in my opinion.

For rue..start with maybe 2-3g if you want to take it with mimosa..maybe try out a gram by itself in a brew if you want to get aquainted..that should give you a mild harmala glow. I have not drank over 2 or 3 grams or rue yet so I cant say what more rue will be like.

You need between 3-4 grams, 2 is most often not enough, ive had many earlier misfires due to taking 2 grams rue.
Take at the very least three and at the very most 4, youll be just fine! Ive taken rue over 100 times i know its effects inside and out.

Be warned, the rue WILL BE more intense than the ayahuasca, so just maybe you may want to lower the Mimosa tea dose, unless your shooting to go above and beyond your last experience!

Good luck brother!

Nah man, 3g of rue will not be more intense than 120g of caapi. Suppose a low yeild caapi of 1% alkaloids. That's still over 1g of alkaloids from 120g of caapi. Assume a high yeilding rue of 5% alkaloids. 5% of 3g is 150mg. Even if that's 100% harmaline, it won't be as intense as over 100g of caapi.

Harmalosa writes,

..the majority of people i know who've tried both would describe the rue as more intense..
caapi seems gentler/smoother and generally more forgiving on 'equivalent' doses...


.

Right, but 3g of Rue generally doesn't make an equivalent dose for 100-120g of Caapi.

All very helpful, many thanks!

Am I right in thinking that the absolutely-crazy-dissolution-lunatic-carnival stage of the experience will last longer with rue? (with caapi it lasted approximately an hour)

And I am thinking 4g of rue, as it has been sat there for a while, with 5g Mimosa. I mean, as long as it doesnt go on for hours and hours, I will surely survive right? How long can I expect from 4g rue?

Or, as I have 10g, I may split it into 3, as i have no scales! (I hope to god it really is 10g and hasnt been labelled wrong )

From 4g of rue I typically get 5-6 hours though I've gotten as much as 8. It should be noted that psychedelics tend to last longer for me than most people on equivalent doses though. Me and my friends can each take the same exact dose at the same time, and they'll lose their visuals after 2 hours and I'll still be going strong after 5.

Oh. I very well may start with 3 then. Or 3.333333333333333333333333333333333

No, I don't think Syrian Rue lasts longer than caapi. Both of them contain the same active alkaloids, harmine and harmaline. Syrian Rue just has a higher harmaline content than harmine, in comparison to caapi which usually has more harmine than harmaline (as well as thh). As well, Syrian Rue has higher concentration of harmala alkaloids by weight compared to caapi. Caapi usually containing 1-2% alkaloids, while rue has been reported 3-7% alks. While harmaline requires a smaller dose to inhibit mao, I don't think harmaline particularly is longer acting within the body, nor will it prolong the effect of dmt longer than harmine.

4g of rue doesn't concern me at all, but 5g of mimosa.... that puts some fear in my soul.

So what dose of mimosa would you have with 4g of the rue? I really liked the 7g (split between 2 doses) with the caapi, but I guess there was the caapi protecting me. Also, as it was a scrappy dosing method I guess in total it would have been closer to 5 administered efficiently (ie. 20 mins after ingestion rather than drinking them both together). But that REALLY did the trick anyway.

Does rue have a similar 'protective' nature? From what I have gathered, I guess not so much?

Honestly, if that kind of dosing did well for you with the caapi, I would just stick to that with the rue. I don't alter my mimosa doses or manner of dosing at all between caapi and rue, and aside of drinking them and puking them back up, I would probably do pretty poorly on guessing which was administered to me in a blind "taste test" (obviously they taste very different )

if you don't think the rue is more powerful than the cappi,
Try grams mimosa with 100 grams aya, then a week later do the same with 4 grams rue.

The rue is more intense by an order of magnitude, I've done this many times and garuantee it.
This is not because of harmala harmaline ratios or any of that, it is just the nature of the experience. Even with a dose with a theorwtically equal amount of alkaloids the rue is way different.

I believe it really is cause that is just the character of the rue, not a popular opinion here since most lean twords science, but I've had over 100 experiences with the rue, and many many ayahuasca experiences, please consider that and don't be so quick to dismiss my speculations

To be honest I sort of agree with harmalosa here..4 grams of rue is on par with at least 100g of caapi I would think from my experience with rue. Maybe I have potent rue, I dunno.

The alkaloid content of caapi that people are using here to compare to rue is misleading as well. The numbers found in caapi do NOT correspond to the numbers found in rue..you cant compare them that way..if you are getting 1% for instance with caapi, it will NOT compare to 1% from rue..even when you concider the harmaline in rue. There is more being pulled in caapi I am almost certain of it, there are many minor alkaloids found in caapi. They may have activity, but I bet it is less active than harmine or harmaline.

I can only speak for me, and maybe I am senstive to harmaline..but 2g of rue compares to 50g caapi easily for me. I have drank 2 grams of rue and been glued to the bed for 40 minutes at a time before with visions.

Harmaline also adds a dimension to the experience that I do not view as bad or inequal as some others do. I like it. It is a heavier and dreamier feel when I take rue..it is more sedating and stoning in a way, but also very mentally psychedelic.

Fractal, I wish I had this apparent sensitivity to rue and harmalas that you seem to have. 4g of rue can really give you a pop eh? Very interesting to compare 4g of rue to 100g of caapi.

I guess everyone is different. Most of my experiences have been with Syrian Rue. The few times that I have used caapi were not lighter experiences. They were some of the heaviest journeys I've taken. So, to the OP, I'm just trying to say rue isn't something to be feared, at least not in the 3g range. I have not found Syrian Rue to be dark, or disturbing, or more intense, or nauseating. lol... but then I guess half the other people will tell you something different. I think we can agree though, that if you've taken 130g of caapi no problem, you should be fine with 3 or 4 grams of rue.

I "trip" off of 4 grams rue, nothing else. Its quite nice, definetly entheogenic at 4 grams (for me)

I speak from personal experience with the same doses of the same admixtures from the exact same batches of tea, done sometimes with cappi, sometimes with rue, they are very different.

So for me the bottomline is no, they are not the same and the dosing should be different.

One time i took 18 grams chaliponga with ayahuasca, it was a beautiful experience, wonderfully healing, positive and loving, very powerful yet subtle and gentle.
The next week i took the exact same dose from the exact same brew of chaliponga but with rue instead, and the experiences were not at all comparable, with the rue and chali, i entered a deep deep and frightening psychedelic state, had contact with a magical entity. Time ceased to exist and i could not comprehend the passing of time, and my mind was split into many different selves having many different thoughts at once. This was an all out re-birth trip and completely changed me.

What im saying here is, i was PROFOUNDLY more altered on the rue/chali, by a LONGSHOT.

Ive had similar experiences with mimosa and aya. Usually when doing aya with mimosa ill use 15 grams MHRB, something I would do only with extreme trepidation and in expectation of an extremely powerful experience if used with rue.

Wow! I am nowhere near ready to take 15g MHRB with anything yet!

Harmalosa, I'm curious, how do you prepare your syrian rue? I've been making a tea with mortar ground seeds, and I don't think I'm getting full effects.

That's probably the best way.