I've heard of shamans being put on certain diets when they first start their apprenticeship.

I've also heard of people fasting for weeks at a time for spiritual enlightenment.

I'm just curious... Do any nexians have any first hand experience with this??

With the spiritual fasting, do they only drink water with no food?

Also what are the acceptable foods for a shamanic diet?

Any input is highly appreciated. <3

sure, I just did a 36 hour juice fast then drank aya on thursday night..I juiced tons of fruits and vegetables with garlic and ginger..

I eat all raw food, and now all fruits and veggies..thats it..n spring water..

A diet high in N,N-DMT has been proven to be effective by the board of

There are plenty types of diets out there.. There is no consensus on what should be eaten and what not, it depends on the culture. Often there is no (or very little) salt or sugar ingestion, but there are plenty of differences in different cultures (some may not eat any meat at all, others can eat fish, etc) Im sure in the ayahuasca forums there is a lot of information regarding that, but I guess some people here will be able to tell you here too.

Personally I've tried fasting, not fasting, dieting, not dieting, and its all the same to me. Maybe this is due to the fact that I normally already eat light and natural food in my day-to-day life. Maybe for people that eat bad, for those eating red meat or too much industrialized food, it could be of benefit to make a change in diet before using these substances

I dont think there is a 'magical' process happening when one diets or fasts, and I neither think in terms of tyramine it actually matters because of harmalas being RIMAs. I feel its more of a common sense thing, that first of all these substances are strongly psychoactive, can make you more aware of things, more conscious, and if you've been eating very bad, the trip can show you so and you might suffer from it. Also I think the fact that there is serotonin signalling in the guts when ingesting these substances, and therefore there is a natural pharmacological induction of nausea, if one has ate heavily it can make the whole subjective feeling much worse, more nausea and suffering.

So Im all for making a positive change in your diet every day, not just before tripping, but I think you should experiment for yourself and see if in your experience its the same as with me or if you feel that for you, dieting or fasting makes a big difference.

i know you said that it may not be too significant for you, because you eat quite healthy normally, but for someone who is overweight, eats lots of meat, eats processed food, and flour, sugar, alcohol, etc... the benefits of a month long cleanse, with a week of fasting at the end can be magical and life changing indeed. i'm talking about a full digestive system cleanse. it takes about a month.

basically for 2-3 weeks, one stops eating meat, sugar, coffee, flour, processed foods. meals are of fresh fruits, lightly steamed veggies, salads-no sugar in the dressing- and fruit juice-organic.----this is the pre cleanse. during this time one is also eating a large number of herbs (over 30 divided into two categories) the herbs can be capsulated for easy ingestion. the herbs are healing and cleansing, preparing one for the cleanse.

in week 3 one stops all food intake. for one week the diet is of organic juice, water, a REGIMEN of herbs (these include rhubarb root, cayenne, lobelia, goldenseal, myrrh, barberry bark, cascara sagrada bark, and many others)--these are alternated with psyllium husk and bentonite clay shakes, liquid chlorophyll, and chlorella.

oh and i cant forget to mention the 2 enemas per day this is very important
this is a full intestinal cleanse, not for the faint of heart. it rids the body of built up muck stuck to the walls of small and large intestines. for someone who is overweight or unhealthy, this can be life changing! i have never been overweight, and it was life changing for me.

for more info, check www.cleanse.net
Rich Andersen wrote the book and the method for the cleanse, it is called "cleanse and purify thyself"
my dad got a copy in the early 90's, and i have done the cleanse 3 times!
if anyone is really interested, i can share the diet, and method specifics, but the book is only ten bucks, and a valuable read!--it has also been updated since its 1988 printing.
Rich gets quite spiritual in his explanations, sometimes quoting scripture, but i dont think it is the bible.
in the end he praises a diet of RAW LIVE foods that are full of the 'life giving force'.
i find it quite difficult to adhere to that type of diet, thus i keep returning to the cleanse.

i also find early spring to be a good time for the cleanse, kinda like spring cleaning for the body

It's not too hard to go raw really after the first week or so, you learn to like it when you start to feel more alive than you ever have since..I was alredat all natural eating organic rice bread and cooked veggies etc..but going 100% raw on fruits and vegetables is like a giant step up from that. I dont even want nuts anymore..and I am quite convinced now humans dont need protein at all ever..I feel like I can get all my amino acids from fruit and green vegetables..I do get some protein from kale etc..but nothing even close to the recomended ammount and I feel sooo good and I have alot of energy. This is not just a pre ayahuasca diet though..this is just my diet. I have some caffine in green tea and mate, but not alot and I dont drink it all day..and I eat some cacao, which is a nut, but I dont eat alot of it like one would with other nuts. In the morning I drink clay.

I have also noticed an increase in the vividness of my dreams since I started on all raw foods and spring water..and also, believe it or not..DMT has become much more interactive for me and I have been having the deepest most profound experiences of my life.

Just because you feel good now doesn't mean you won't develop a nutrient deficiency later.

Many raw food diet health claims are bunk.



Why?



This is also a bunk health claim. Digestive system cleanse diets have no reliable evidence to back them up. Your intestines are regularly "cleansed" every time you take a dump.



There is no such thing as a life giving force that comes from raw food.

Sure sometimes nutrients are damaged or volatilized by cooking but so are toxins and certain compounds become more easily digested by cooking.

To the OP:

I don't know the anthropological explanations for shamanic diets. But a reasonable explanation may be the following. Shamans specialize in taking and administering a variety of botanical substances. In order to minimize risks of drug-drug interactions shamans traditionally have restricted their diet. Although different cultures and even different shamans observe a different diets as well as have different explanations for why I think this is a reasonable hypothesis. I wonder if anyone has any information about the actual purposes of shamanic diets?

If someone can find me a source that is reliable and backed up by an actaul study with an outcome pointing to humans redquiring complex amino acids in the form of "proteins" to build muscle whereas all the amino acids in plants cant do the same thing I would like to see it, becasue so far after all my research I have yet to see anything that points to that..there are freaking bodybuilders that openly state they eat no other protein than what is in green vegetables, they just get TONS of amino acids...science tells us that we need amino acids to build muscle..protein is like the middle man, your body has to break it all down into simpler amino acids to do anything with it. I mean you can disagrre all you want but this is just a fact. You need amino acids, but not necessarily protein. All the body needs to build muscle is carbohydrates, amino aciods and water, and certian vitamines I think. You can get all of this from plants. If someone developes a deficiency its not becasue they dont eat eat, its becasue they are missing something, thats all. In no way does that mean they have to get that from meat.

look at the cows people eat..look at all the protein in a cow..do cows eat animals??..no but thye sure as hell dont have protein deficiencies.

I drink bentonite clay in the morning with spring water becasue it absorbs toxins in the digestive tract.

3 years ago I was dying. Im not dying anymore, so I must be doing something right.

Also talkng about a life giving force from raw foods does make sense..there is nothing esoteric about it. It's these things called enzymes.

all i can say to your 'dump' statement is the evidence will be in the toilet---LITERALLY! after not eating for several days, while taking herbs/psillum husk, and clay, you will be passing feet upon feet of mucoid muck that in no way resembles normal feces. it is rubbery and hollow. it is the built up mass from the inside of the intestines. this stuff DOES NOT pass every day under normal circumstances. i can be sitting there and feel it break free inside. i know this is kinda gross, but it is the case.

it is like this: our western diets are very acidic. lots of refined sugar/sweeteners. this causes a film to build up on the inside of the intestines. small particles of processed foods (flour) adhere to this layer, and it just keeps building up. soon larger pieces get stuck too. --Evidence for this comes from dissected colons of dead, overweight people. in some cases, the colon is stretched to a gigantic size, with only a small passage for food in the middle, the rest is a rubbery build up of mucoid, rotting, dead food, and sometimes--parasites.

In Rich Andersons' cleanse, the bentonite clay pulls this layer from the intestine, much like it can pull bee venom from the skin. the psyllium husk fiber helps push the layer thru, while the herbs rebuild, and regenerate the intestine cell walls. oh, and the enemas help evacuate the UNBELIEVABLE build up of darkness that is the result of the western diet.

processed foods are for sure dead foods. cooking vegetables you say "sometimes" damages the nutritional profile of the food. why sometimes?
I do think that cooking food is at the very least decreasing the nutritional profile, at the worst destroying enzymes, amino acids, and vitamins.

the real "proof" for me is the way i feel, and look after the cleanse, and after eating only raw, organic foods.
i dont need any further proof.

This is true. I've tried to not eat meat, but I crave protein. Not just meat proteins either. I love beans and eat them almost daily. It's just the way I was raised I suppose. We ate meat everyday. I could stop eating it, but I feel like I'm denying myself something. I just enjoy it too much I do stay away from red meat and pork though. Mostly chicken, turkey, fish. I also would rather eat cooked veg rather than all raw. Fruits I will usually eat raw, but vegetables I like to at least steam.

Fasting and cleansing are very good for your body. I've done both and there is a marked difference after going through a cleanse or fasting for even just a few days. I also do the juice fast, although I have done it with only water, but I find the juice fast easier to adhere to and you get the same results in the end.

Oh yeah and when I talk about building muscle from plants, I am only referring to raw plants that are not cooked which destroys the amino acid profile..also you know when they test foods for these nutrients they usually cook them first..they need to do more testing on raw foods.

Dont just listen to me, just look at some of the oldest people alive, so many of them eat all raw foods.

http://www.youtube.com/w...9GIU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/w...ylxY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5XGUGwmbhI

here just look at this guy, and he IS a doctor. guy is 109 years old right now, seems more coherant than alot of 70 year old people.

If you can get enough of all the needed amino acids from any source that's all you need. Your right protein needs to be broken down first. My statement was more towards getting enough protein/amino acids in general. That depends on what you eat and I personally have no desire to scrutinize the details of your diet. I've met people who got serious nutrient deficiencies from not getting enough protein. It took a few months to develop and it took a visit to the doctor to figure out what was wrong. You probably know what your doing as you've not developed such a condition but many people don't and wind up sick from a diet they thought would "change their life".



What toxins? Diet claims routinely throw out the term toxins and just lump all chemicals such as preservatives pesticides and additives into the same category of "toxins". The claims that diets detoxify the body are mostly total nonsense. Your liver, kidneys and gastrointestinal tract remove the vast majority of such compounds in a few hours. There is often little to no evidence that many compounds added to food are toxic or damaging in the amounts that the average person is exposed too.



This is one of the more obvious bogus claims about raw food. Those same exact enzymes that raw food advocates claim have all kinds of health benefits are denatured by the low pH of the stomach. In other words they lose their function pretty much instantly. Even if they retained their function just throwing out the term enzyme doesn't say anything about the digestive process they are supposedly involved in.



Yes so your eating clay and then saying your shit looks like mucoid muck? Do you see why this is a bit ironic?



I don't know what film your referring too but a film in your intestines is not a surprise many bacteria make films. I think this claim is a bunch of nonsense. Its up to you to prove otherwise if you want to lend credability to your claims about cleansing diets.

Furthermore its dangerous to remove all the bacterial flora from your gut. This lowers your immunity and ruins digestion.



Lots of claims no real evidence to back them up.



It depends on the compound and how its cooked. The enzyme claim I already explain is rubbish. Cooking sometimes improves the ability to digest and get useful compounds from food. Again it depends on the compound and the specific case you are referring too. Blanket claims that "cooking destroys nutrients" are automatically suspect. What nutrient are you referring too? What form? How much do you need anyway? What about compounds whose digestable forms are made more accessable by cooking?



You look better because you lost weight. You feel better because your body is releasing more endorphins because you are starving yourself. Your giving yourself a kind of runners high. The problem with doing these cleanses too much is that people tend to lose a lot of weight and then put back on a lot of weight right after they return to eating normally. Which is an unhealthy way to diet.

I just wanted to chime in here, I think diet is incredibly important to one's health, but people take this raw food diet stuff far too seriously I think, and yes I think eating some raw food is a very good idea and something which I practice.

However, the belief that cooking ALWAYS destroys the nutritional content of all foods is utter bullshit. Man's taming of fire, and discovery of cooking, was one of the key steps in our evolution, and is one of the reasons why we are so incredibly successful as a species on this planet. With the discovery of cooking, several things happened at once...food became safe to eat, with bacteria and poisons destroyed, and with this our diet could expand massively, and just as importantly, cooking increases the calorie content of some foods greatly, so freeing up more energy and resources for bigger brains, and breeding.

Take the potato for example. Try eating a raw potato. Not only will it be revolting, it will give you a nasty stomach ache...your body can't break it down or digest it in any way. When heated, the starch grains in the cells of the potato expand and swell, bursting the cell membranes and releasing the nutritious contents contained within. Without this heating/cooking treatment, your body is simply not equipped to break down the cellulose cell walls, you lack the enzymes or the gut for that. This is unlike herbivorous mammals such as cows. The reason they can get so large on such a diet is colonies of symbiotic bacteria that live in the gut which break down the cellulose. In return for this near perfect environment, these mammals can utilise the protein produced from the bacteria.

Several other foods I've heard that increase in nutritional bioavailability on cooking are carrots, tomatoes and eggs, and I'm sure there will be many more.

And on the enzymes contained in raw foods front, evidence is lacking that your body is able to assimilate these enzymes in any way. They may play some part in digestion itself, but many types contained in raw food will be denatured or destroyed on contact with the highly acidic environment of your stomach, only specialized types are active there.

I'm not knocking the importance of a good, wholesome diet in any way, but I think some people can take it too seriously.

ok when I say "toxins" I am specifically referring to allergens built up inmy system since I lived with allergies to things like dairy and beef etc my entire life and ate all those things up until the last while..so my purpose of eating clay is to fully remove all those things from my digestive tract..eventaully I just wont feel the need to ingest bentonite at all, but for now I do..

I agree with you though burnt about alot of vegans etc being sick and deficient..I see that alot..people go vegan, raw etc and sit there eating one food all day long, binging on nuts or vegans eating bread all day long etc..alot of people still dont research this stuff and eat everything they need..

I still dont agree that a raw diet is bullshit at all though Bancopuma, and personally I dont think anyone can fully undestand that who hasnt tried it for a while..also there are diff kinda of raw diets, some feel worse than others for me..which is why I dont want to eat nuts persoanally..they just dont ever sit well, even when sprouted.. people should find what works for them..I used to be VERY skeptical of these kinda of people and said all the same things about them. I dont care anymore what study says this or says that about a damn thing personally, I just know I feel so much better doing this compared to when I was still all organic etc but cooking food..the difference in how much my digestion has improved is unbelievable. I used to be fucking miserable with all kinda of problems and it would force me to sit at home and not even leave my house some days, but I really dont feel that way anymore. I do warm food up, like vegetable soups, but never to the point where i could burn my finger in it etc..

Another big thing in microwaves..I dunno much about this but I remember one study where researchers found that something like 3 minutes after microwaved food is consumed a persons blood will test positive for leukemia..nmot that I use micorowaves but others that do might want to look into that....

I really dont care to argue with people about what diet is better..I just know from experience that for me, cooking anything i call a meal is always worse than cooking nothing. foods that I feel I cant eat raw, like potatoes, i just dont eat..and I will never be 100% raw really becasue I brew ayahuasca for like freaking hours...

I think whats most important is that people put what feels best into they`re own bodies..before we had dietary advice etc we just ate on instinct..its good that we have the doctors etc..but dont live by some guideline..give your body what feels good for your body..it`s a temple so keep it clean and intact.

oh wait I thought of something else..mushrooms..mushrooms I think are one thing I would always cook..into teas..see some things can be cooked it just depends on what im doing with it..there is some research that shows medicinal mushrooms like chaga etc should be cooked to kill other things on it etc..and use them medicinally for teas and stuff..

Saying "cook nothing ever" etc is too generalized a statement really..but anything I would call a meal I eat raw..

Wow, I didn't expect so many responses. Thank you for all of your input!



I agree that some more experimentation is in order. When I first smoked DMT around April of this year, it shattered my views of reality and really took me awhile to integrate.

The first thing I did was start fasting and eating mostly raw. I did notice a hightened sensitivity but since I was so new to spice, I really didn't recognize it.

While I was integrating and not smoking as much spice my diet reverted back to a typical Americans diet... Lots of red meat and starches.

I've definitely noticed that it takes a lot more spice to get me anywhere so that's why I wanted some input on what other people are trying and their results.




This resonates strongly with me. I also did a lemon juice flush out which consists of using fresh squeezed organic lemons, cayenne pepper, grade a dark amber maple syrup and water.

More info about the lemon flush can be found here.

I did this for a week or so and then switched to mostly drinking smoothies and juices.

I would make different juice blends and dilute them down with lots of water so I wouldn't be consuming so much sugar.

I definitely felt a lot better mentally and physically.

I'll look into the herbal cleanse you mentioned. I know when I did the salt water flush out I felt like a million bucks.




There is a documentary called "Food Matters" that is available on NetFlix and is streamable from here.. There is also a plethora of other great documentaries available at that link.

I don't remember which vegetable it was, but one guy mentions a plant that has more protein than a steak and is instantly available to the body since it's more water soluble. It was a very interesting watch indeed.




I do remember having a much stronger sense of connectedness to everything and everyone when I was eating healthier. This thread is definitely inspiring me to get back on that path.




Since discovering spice, I have watched any and all documentaries on ayahuasca and shamanism I could find. One of the shamans said that for the first year all he could eat was bananas. He said the reason was to increase sensitivity. It's probably why they discourage sex several days before ceremonies.



Yeah, I believe that just as with anything else, balance is key. Too much of anything eventually turns into a bad thing.




Russia outlawed microwaves due to fear of health problems.
Just one link. A google search for "russia outlaws microwaves" will provide more.



You rock Fractal <3

Just to say, I never said a "raw diet is bullshit", all I was saying was that the conviction that cooking consistently lowers the nutritional potency of all food all of the time is most certainly bullshit. I try and eat lots of raw stuff though, I start every day with a raw banana, cocoa, honey, extra virgin olive oil, egg, frozen summer fruit, shelled hemp seed milkshake and this keeps me going for ages, I swear by it. I do like the act of cooking itself though, it's a place where art and science come together.

Interesting points though y'all.

yes, this is remedied by taking acidophilis and bifidius after cleansing to re introduce friendly flora.



i surely don't think i am starving myself, even during the week of the cleanse. apple juice, chlorophyll, and a regimen of herbs provide plenty of nutrients. sure, i can see the runner's high similarity. i would certainly not do this cleanse more than once a year, its been a few years now... I have never been overweight, and might lose 5 lbs after a cleanse.

i have seen pictures of starving people, they don't look vibrant, and full of color. i'm only writing this for anyone here who might feel unhealthy, congested, or blocked up. if your tongue is white, or spots in your eyes, if you have bad breath, or really stinky poo, this cleanse can really help you feel vibrant and rejuvenated.

you can read tons of info attempting to disprove this type of thing on the net. but also many, many testimonials claiming just what i am saying. its just information, take it at that. Many negative claims say it is invented to get someone rich. No one is getting rich from my cleansing--except maybe the local herb shop--$40-60 for a month.

I stayed out of this thread on purpose but I can't let this pass.

You CAN'T re-create a gut flora with probiotics !!!! They only containt 8 species or so and CAN'T become a permanant residents !!!!

I apologize for the excessive usage of "!"'s but repopulating a gut flora takes years and those years are fucking miserable so whoever is talking about removing the gut flora is a fool and knows nothing about this subject.

That being said, you can't remove bacterial flora with a clease but you sure can with antibiotics.