I’m still quite new to caapi – a few months ago I bought 100g of black caapi whole vine, and I’ve tried micro-dosing (5-8g) caapi tea. I brewed the tea in plain water for only 20 minutes or so, no reduction. It actually tastes good (with a bit of sugar). The effects were noticeable – similar to the effects of sublingual caapi copy.

Earlier this evening, I decided to try a cautiously larger (but still relatively small) amount properly brewed. I shredded 30g, added about 1/8 teaspoon fumaric acid (I didn’t want any vinegar flavor), and did three boils with about 500mL water each. Each boil was about 30 minutes or so. I let the brew settle and decanted, removing a small amount of sediment. I then reduced the brew to about 8 oz. The brew at this point was amber in color and crystal clear. After cooling for about 20 minutes, it became very cloudy – looked almost like chocolate milk! (Is this normal?)

I decided to drink half of it, check effects, and then drink the other half. So I drank the first half. Ughh… It was extremely sour (from the fumaric acid I guess) AND extremely bitter. Vile. Vile times two.

I sat back, and after about 20 minutes or so, I felt some mild “head” effects. After another 20 minutes, I suddenly felt very ill. Cold sweat, spinning head, weakness all over, loss of coordination. It was awful – I felt poisoned. Surprisingly, I didn’t feel any nausea. Maybe a bit of stomach discomfort.

I went to lie down, and this seemed to help. I didn’t have any visuals, but I did feel very “absorbed” by my thoughts. About 2 hours after I first drank, most of the sick feelings abruptly ended. Relief!

It’s now about 3.5 hours post-drink, and I’m still feeling a bit “queasy”. I’m very glad I didn’t drink the other half!

So now I’m wondering. Am I super-sensitive to caapi? I read about people taking 50g, 75g, even 100g at a time, and I know 30g would have been extremely unpleasant for me. Could it be very potent caapi? Does anyone else get strong effects from 15g?

Microdoses are *totally* active!! I enjoy drinking heavy doses of Caapi, but I've had very significant, and sometimes even visionary effects from as little as 3g.

Black Caapi is also quite somatic.

Tuning into it is incredibly cool... I've found my sensitivity has been honed over time with regular work with the vine, too.

Do you find yourself sensitive to other entheogens?

I do have friends, though, who can't feel a tickle at < 200g... individual sensitivity varies incredibly.

Sounds like my first caapi encounter:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=10812

Now i can apparantly drink 40g no problem ?
Maybe it's because it was your first real experience with caapi that you felt so ill...perhaps the body adapts after the first rough one. Or it was the acid. I used citric acid thee first time and it felt horrible. Then, i switched to vinegar. If you boild the brew long enough, you can make the vinegar evaporate almost completely.

My brews also look like chocolate milk if they are not decanted to the max.

Hi gibran2

I concur with obliguhl. the fumaric acid had for sure some effect in extracting the actives but is nasty. I would have used vinegar myself, but also remember that in the traditional preparations no acid is used at all, so you do not actually need it. Aalso believe that part of your discomfort may be due to the use of fumaric acid. It has never been a part of my diet!

As for the strength of the experience, besides the help that the acid has provided in extracting the actives, note that black caapi is actually the strongest variety, so your 15 grams can be roughly equivalent to 30-40 grams of other varieties. And these doses should be more than enough for entering the caapi headspace. And as ms_manic_minxx has referred, black IS very somatic: there are other things in caapi besides beta-carbolines!

Thanks for your replies.

I should add that I didn’t adjust my diet, and didn’t fast (maybe pepperoni pizza 2 hours before a caapi brew isn’t a good idea? In my defense, it was homemade.)

@ _minxx: I don’t have experience with entheogens other than DMT and salvia, but I do think I’m sensitive – I can have a (vaporized) DMT breakthrough at right about the 22mg point, and at 25mg I’ll have a strong breakthrough. My most difficult experience ever was with 27mg. With salvia, I’m one of probably few who actually measures his doses. I get a moderate breakthrough with 18mg of my homegrown/home extracted 20X, and a strong breakthrough with 25mg.

@ obliguhl: I read your report, and it sounds familiar, except for the purging. I use sublingual harmalas every time I have a vaped journey, so I thought I might be “pre-adjusted” to caapi, but obviously not. I also read that fumaric acid tastes about 3x more sour than citric acid (candy makers use it when they want really sour candy!), and because it doesn’t boil away, the brew just gets more and more sour as it reduces. I didn’t use much, but obviously enough to make it very sour. Yuk. I’ll use vinegar next time.

The brew was very clear when it was boiling hot. It only became cloudy after cooling. I looked at the remaining brew this morning (in the fridge for about 12 hours) and it hasn’t settled at all. I’ll take a photo if that will help figure out what’s going on.

@ pictaris: So do you think that I consumed enough for full inhibition? Do physical symptoms correlate well with degree of inhibition?

Thanks again to all.

gibran- congratulations on your first caapi tea experience. to me it sounds perfectly logical to be this sensitive to caapi especially considering the vine type.

50-60g seems a common dose by reports given. if some users (like myself) need triple digits to get going i dont see why the pendulum shouldn't swing equally far in the other direction. i also feel the first good caapi dosing tends to stir up a lot of physical and emotional toxins. it sure did for me. ive never been sicker but in a good way .

most of your described effects center around feeling ill and not much psychedelic effect other than being deep in thought. i almost wonder if some of that sickness could be caused or amplifyed by the fumeric acid used. i am not at all familiar with ingesting that stuff so its just a guess.

maybe try the vinegar and just reduce it down to 1-2oz next time. its not like it tasted good with the fumeric acid i doubt the vinegar will make things any worse tasting, just a different kind of awful.

Ihave had all of those effects from just 5grams of vine, even dream-like visions when laying down..one time I drank about 5 grams and thought I would go about my day but I ended up unable to get out of bed for about 2 hours becasue I felt sick and was really feeling the ayahuasca..

Now my brews always have 1g of mimosa to every 50g of vine..that way I can always judge my dose..25g of vine and .5 mimosa is like 1/3 or 1/2 of a shotglass and I always dose that much right away..always hits wihin 3-5 minutes and sometimes evenat that dose it gets very strong and I will have to lay down..it doesnt last more than about 1-1.5 hours though..so if I either want to just go deeper or extend the experience I will drink anthor dose the same size..and he second dose is always stroner than the first one and hits like a minute after I swallow it. When I dose all 50g of vine at once it can get very very powerful with profound and meaningful visions..I think about 65-70g is the highest I have gone and it was very uncomfortable.

Also..I never use acids..only wild spring water. I used vinegar once and swore it off after that.

"The brew was very clear when it was boiling hot. It only became cloudy after cooling. I looked at the remaining brew this morning (in the fridge for about 12 hours) and it hasn’t settled at all. I’ll take a photo if that will help figure out what’s going"

That is totally normal..it will always cloud after it cools. The sediment contains alot of actives as well and the resulting brew decanted after all the sediments are settled is always weaker for me..so at least save all your sediment and use it in your next brew to get the rest of the alkaloids.

I only used a very small amount of fumaric acid (less than 1/8 teaspoon, probably less than a gram) and fumaric acid is used in the food industry in much the same way as citric acid: candies, beverages, sauces, etc. I doubt it was the fumaric acid.

My guess is that the caapi is strong and I’m sensitive. I extracted the harmalas from the remaining brew (15g caapi) – see this thread. I wasn’t very careful about maximizing yield, and my preliminary results indicate a yield of about 2.5%. This means I consumed at least 375mg of harmalas. That’s a fairly hefty dose, isn’t it?

And 60g of my brew would have about 1.5g of harmalas! I can’t imagine taking that much.

Next time I’ll try vinegar – “a different kind of awful”.

I thoroughly dried my caapi alkaloids, and the yield was a bit lower: 323mg or 2.15%. Still a respectably high yield I think. I’ll post a link to the vendor in the vendor subforum.