A few questions regarding HBWR seeds..

My father suffers from chronic cluster migraines, and has for as long as I can remember. Due to this he is unfortunately addicted to his prescription narcotics.. However, after my recent success with natural medicines, namely Iboga, he is expressing some interest in turning to natural treatments for his problem.

Iboga I believe would be too intense for him at flood levels, though we're considering using micro-doses to help him lower his tolerance to his medications.

However, I've read a whole lot about using LSD/Mushrooms/LSA for the treatment of migraines. It seems these chemicals have a lot of success in stopping a migraine cold in it's tracks.

I don't have any personal experience with HBWR seeds, but I have used Morning Glory seeds several times.. And though I have had success with that at 6+ grams, the stomach discomfort was such that it almost made the experience not worth it.. So I'm wondering, how does the stomach discomfort of Morning Glory seeds compare to that with HBWR?

I've read that HBWR seeds due cause some stomach discomfort like their Morning Glory cousins.. But from what I gather, the amount required for effects with HBWR is much less than that of Morning Glories.. Does this make the stomach discomfort less? Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks!

In SWIM's experience, HBWR is the most toxic of the bunch. 6 seeds can make a person pretty ill for a while. You'd have to do an extraction of some kind at the very least to minimize toxic effects, but even still, one would probably be better off just going with psilocybin, in swim's opinion.. it's easy to procure and is virtually non-toxic.

some snake I know tried grinding 10 hbwr seeds, soaking them in vegetable oil 24 hours, then soaking the seed mush in lemon/mint tea for 24 hours, all in the fridge. the tea was filtered and still made him feel quite poisoned for ~2 hours, followed by a very profound introspective geometric and special kind of experience. A bit of the oil did make it into the final brew, but I don't know how that could be avoided. Naptha is supposed to be good for cleaning the seed mush, but I never tried it. I agree shrooms are more user friendly, or maybe a smaller dose would be less unpleasant. At any rate, the snake won't be eating any of that stuff for a while, but its not out of the question.

Thanks for the responses!

If it helps I'd like to try and be more specific..

I have personal experience with Morning Glory seeds.. And have even had one enjoyable experience. But even that one good time was only after about 2 hours of severe nausea and stomach cramping. I have never tried HBWR seeds before though.. But their alkaloid content being much higher, I know that you can get the same effects by eating much less.. HBWR seeds tend to weigh about 130mg on average, and if 4 seeds are called for threshold effects, then once could get by with eating less than 1 gram of HBWR seeds.. For me to attain threshold effects with Morning Glories I had to eat 5 grams or more..

So to simplify my question.. I know that both seeds can cause discomfort.. But if I could handle 5 grams of Morning Glory seeds, would 1 gram or less of HBWR come with about the same amount of discomfort? Or would it be less because you're eating less material.

Like I said, my dad is interested in these natural cures.. and he was even considering trying the mushroom/LSD route to treat his headaches, but he will only do it legally, and unfortunately I missed the deadline to sign him up for the study that MAPS was performing for treating chronic migraines. So I'm considering the HBWR seeds for him, but he's already expressed to me that if the nausea is too severe, he'd rather just suffer through the migraine. So I know everyone is different, but I'm just trying to gather a general idea of what it might be like for him based off my experience and others.

So, does anyone know how the nausea and stomach pains of 4 HBWR seeds would compare to 5+ grams of Morning Glories?

Check this site out http://www.clusterbusters.com/ it should be helpful

The only thing I can offer you is from SWIM's experience with HBWR as SWIM hasn't used morning glories before. SWIM heard the rumor that if you take off the fury stuff on the seeds it reduces nausea so he tried that but from reading more after this seems to be a myth. It appears the nausea will happen regardless.

Regardless it was a long time ago and SWIM can't remember how many he took but it was at least 5-6. He did experience some nausea and vomiting for a good 15+ minutes, however he didn't really find it unpleasant as when sick or drunk. It was very intriguing because he had super feeling in his stomach muscle area and got to feel the crazy amount of muscles in the stomach area that are used for puking. It was really kind of neat.

Once he got through the one round of nausea that was it for the ride. The rest of the experience was smooth sailing and quite enjoyable.

Excellent link, specially the FAQ for treating cluster headaches with LSA (Lysergic Acid Amide): http://www.clusterbusters.com/faqlsa.htm

I should have been more specific...

some people pre-soak their seed mush in NPS, typically naptha or sometimes veggy oil, to leech out the nausea causing compounds before making their cold water/tea infusion. See my post above to see how well that worked for the pet snake.

If a cold water is enough then I also suggest you take a look at the 69ron tek: https://www.dmt-nexus.me....aspx?g=posts&t=5733

This recipe worked very well for me.

Great! Thank you all so much.. And the clusterbusters link is fantastic! Great stuff. Many thanks!