Okay, having had little luck enjoying smoking the stuff, my friend has been trying to find a good oral dose. He has been scared off smoking by one particular unpleasant experience (there is a report here somewhere called 'humbling', and didn't want to be scared off the anahuasca by having too high a dose too soon. Most people suggest starting with about 100mg and upping the dose if that isn't enough. My friend was going to start with 50, but then read a report where a guy had 50mg and said it was way too intense (I think on erowid), so my friend decided to start as low as 30mg. He had not smoked any in at least a couple of months.

He boiled up three grams of rue (he had tried this a week or so earlier and found this to be quite intoxicating by itself), and twenty minutes later had 30mg freebase DMT in a capsule. In about half an hour after the spice, he was tripping. It wasn't overly intense, but he could see shadowy faces and stuff and he was really optimistic about upping the dose.

Next time he tried 52mg. Same amount of rue. Same time delay before spicing up. It took a little longer to kick in this time, say 45min. The visuals were quite a lot more complex, but still lacked a certain presence. They were very three-dimentional, but were not quite as bright as what he had seen when he smoked it. He thought upping the dose again would be good.

This time he took 75mg and expected a lot. On the second time (52mg) he had thrown up (not a purge type spew), and he wanted to avoid this because he thought he might lose some DMT, especially if he threw up really early due to the high dose in his stomach. He had found the last time that he was least nauseous when he was lying down with a relaxed stomach (last time he had spewed when he got up to go to the toilet to piss), so this time he spent the first 45 min or so lying down and not moving much. It took AGES to kick in, like an hour and 45 min or so. This may be because it was being absorbed slowly due to not moving around. The thing is, that this time the visions never took on quite the grandeur that they did last time. Instead of getting greater visions, he had lesser visions. The whole trip seemed a little less profound.

He is not sure if there is a tolerance thing with oral DMT. These three trips were within the space of a fortnight, and the mundane trip he had the third time kinda reminded him of a mushie trip if he has more than one about every two months or so. Or perhaps something was just a bit weird on this occasion. Maybe the length of time it took for the DMT to absorb lessened the effect. It DID last for quite a while when it got going.

The question is, should he try 100mg in a couple of days? Or should he try 75mg again in a couple of days in case the last one was an anomoly? Or should he wait two weeks and do 75mg again to see what the 75mg is like on 'fresh' tolerance?

Any advice would be great.

haha, well how much time are you willing to take

I've always found taking my time with the experience helps. I'd say just to make sure wait like a week or two and try the 75 again. If that doesn't work, well, better luck next time with a higher dose.

Oral doses come on way slower and the experience is stretched out compared to with the smoked.

Yeah man ,if I was you I would wait a couple of weeks and try the 75 thing again.I'm sure you know what you're doing, but please remember to be carefull with the MAOI food restrictions.

I was confused .. or still am ... so please clarfy for me - by spelling it 'ana'huasca ... are we talking about dmt-supositories again..?

I've had three grams of rue, then about 30 mins later 75 mg of dmt. It didn't do a whole lot so that was followed by another 50mg after 30 mins and then another 50mg after 30 mins. This was almost too much, but that's given the circumstances (in a bar). Had I been in a conducive setting I would be comfortable with dosing 150mg straight up (or two 75mg doses 15 mins apart - may reduce nausea). I guess it comes down to how deep you want to go, but i'd at least suggest you go straight for the 100

Anahuasca-ayahuasca analogue. i.e. no actual ayahuasca vine but similar chemicals and effects, at least that's how I've always understood it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Oh and here's something my friend said:
"Yeah, I'm quite happy to be patient, but I thought if there shouldn't be a tolerance, then I wouldn't bother waiting if I didn't need too. I think I will wait a couple of weeks and then try 75mg again, chances are it will not be as strong as I want, but I can just wait a couple of weeks after that and then go for a hundred.

I haven't found oral dmt to be scary in the same way that I have found smoking it, but I want to build up to a high dose so that I don't put myself off by having a bad experience. So I think I will wait a bit before I try a 100mg dose."

Thanks for all the speedy replies guys. I'll be sure to report back every couple of weeks with some results...there is way too little information about oral dmt out there.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, yes my friend is aware of the MAOI diet. He probably hasn't been abstaining from the 'limit' category as much as he should, but he has stayed away from the 'avoid' category for a day before and a couple of days after each go.

I've found that nothing of much interest happens for me unless I take at least 150mgs. 250-300 is a solid experience. Maybe I'm a hard head, but I think many of the Erowid reports are highly inaccurate...or maybe it is just a few very sensitive people.

Aya doesn't seem to build up much of a tolerance. Many people do it at least once a week without any noticable tolerance build up. I have heard of people doing it two days in a row, or even twice a day. Most reports state that a reverse tolerance builds up and that less is needed. Some attribute this to a build up of MAOI in the body.

how much MAOI do you dose acolon?
and how long after dosing the MAOI do you dose the spice?

I have heard of people doing aya every day for a month, it's just that as that is usually in a traditional setting, I thought maybe it was more for the purge than the visuals. I certainly agree that erowid reports can be inaccurate. I guess I was just surprised that 30mg gave me visuals at all, and expected 75mg to blow me away after that. Also just the fact that 50mg seemed stronger than 75mg in a lot of ways. But in reality, 75mg gave me much thicker OEVs, it was just that the CEVs looked quite mundane and transparent. But in reality they were probably about the same as the 50mg visuals, and I just found them less interesting because I had seen it all a couple of days earlier. I guess proper CEVs are hard to get sick of. They should be astonishing.

Also, most things I have read on the nexus say that if you are used to smoking spice, you should start at about 100mg for an oral dose, and see if you need more after that. Because I often find an average smoked dose too intense, I thought maybe 100mg might be too intense for me too. I have always found smoking it to be a fine line between not getting bright enough visuals, and going too far and just finding it chaotic and confusing. I usually end up smoking not enough.

Even though the CEVs weren't solid like I would have liked on 75mg, I was obviously still tripping quite well in retrospect. I met Terence Mckenna, as I'm sure many of you have, and I must say, he seems to be well practiced at manipulating hyperspace objects.

I think I might lay off it for a week or two anyway, just to give my body a rest from the rue. Like I said before, I will probably do 75mg again. If it doesn't do enough for me, which I expect it wont, then it's not wasted time. All this stuff is just a learning curve, and I need to take it relatively slowly because I've had a bit more difficulties with this drug than I've had with other psychedelics. Once I get my dose right, then the fun begins.

PLEASE NOT: The above text was written by my friend, and should in no way be associated with me.

Ok so 'ana'-huasca is a type-o..? .. we're talking about eating dmt here, right..?

Ime, the dose of dmt taken orally should be normalized to body weight - it is very important to do this. You can easily overdose, and have a major trip to contend with ! Plan to weigh out 0.5 mg or up to 2.0 mg dmt per pound of body weight...

When the MAOIs work, I have always had very intense oral trips with dmt - psychic-roto-rooter type stuff happens whenever it's at > 0.5 mg/lb-body-weight. When I have let MAOIs wear off (>90 minutes from drinking lemony-rue-extract), oral dmt is ineffective or offers just 'pale' visuals. Eat the dmt within 30 minutes, always on an empty stomach.

1.0 mg dmt per pound of body weight is a high dose - so for me at 148 lbs, 150 mg dmt-freebase eaten after 30 minutes of injesting 3.5g extrcated Syrian Rue seed leads to a major, incapacitating trip !

80 mg is enough to make me be un-willing to walk, and I aways seem to end up in a bathtub of really warm water when I do dmt orally. Every sense crosses over becoming synesthesia that can be too much - in all that sensory delight, a warm watery womb is suddenly all I want ! ... memory + synesthesia + emotions + all your psychic-shitz, can overwhelm you, so being in a warm tub seems the best place to be ! But it's your shitz so love it, and explore it, and make up your own version of the imagination soup to swill back on, ... while you wonder if those MAO enzymes were coming back !


With MAOIs in you, which have shut down all your precious MAO enzymes, watch out ! The dmt will just cruise around your body and brain for awhile, and you're 'out-there' or 'in there' until the MAOs come back on-line ! But with the rue seed extract, they do come back, in about 2 hours, and then in 6 hours you're at base-line. The best 'attitude' is to ride it out - puking to visuals of god - try to go with it ! !

I cannot imagine doing dmt orally in a bar-type setting ..>! Jeebus ! It is so strong at > 100 mg that I can barely walk ! And at > 0.75mg-dmt per pound-of-body-weight, it's your unconscious mind coming up, welling up, seeping out unstoppable to show you impossible things .. all that you can imagine, suddenly can be experienced - I'd want my bed instead of a public place !.

Anahuasca is not a typo. Have a look here http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16774

I guess I'm talking about half pharmahuasca half anahuasca. The peganum seeds are the ana bit, and the freebase dmt is the pharma bit.

I'm interested in why you say it must be on an empty stomach. I have read that many times before, but it hasn't seemed to make a difference for me.