Hi folks,

I received an interesting email from Andrew Gallimore yesterday. I'll include the article below, but the gist of it is that MHRB is orally active without an MAOI admixture plant. The recipe is simple, according to Ott: "M. tenuiflora (hostilis) is indeed active neat, with no cooking nor additives, simply by hand-squeezing briefly the pounded root-bark in water, 25g twice infused for less than an hour and minimally squeezed in 125 ml cold, neutral water. Each time was quite distinctly visionary and pharmahuasca-DMT-like, albeit with a slightly accelerated pharmacodynamic all-'round.”


Has anyone ever heard of this, or tried it? Andrew Gallimore is an interesting cat, I suggest you all check out his work if this is the first you're hearing of him. Article here: https://open.substack.co...ost&utm_medium=email

<3

Wow Gallimore is very legitimate. This guy is not flaky or edgy at all. He's like one of us but pure science.

I would love to read if anyone has actually tried this. Super intriguing.

Hey Pandora,

He is extremely legit! There is a wonderful series on his YouTube channel about the basic chemistry of the brain and psychedelics. Really well presented and educational.

Link: https://youtube.com/play...aEfmLvbWu8GQDhUII236MZf-

If anyone has tried the cold water brew, please chime in!

It's called vinho da Jurema and it's used in Catimbó rituals in the north-east and other groups, generally of more spiritist inclinations as well as some new age, urban groups.



I haven't tried it, seems rather inefficient if you need 10-20x as much as you normally would.

Apparently cold water extractions extract yuremamine, a compound that is not heat-stable, which may or may not be what renders it active. Not sure if that would be due to its MAOI effects activating the DMT, or its own effects. I vaguely remember reading that the effects if cold water extractions were unique.

Edit: no evidence it's yuremamine that renders it active, so edited accordingly.

Cool, thank you for the video link. Good point about inefficiency, especially when MHRB is difficult for some to come by... but it also seems rather foolproof so it may be a good option for someone out there!

The author does touch on some of your other points in the article. It seems yuremamine has a colourful and confusing history. From the article, edited for brevity:

"In 2005, a complex indole alkaloid given the name yuremamine was isolated from the stem bark of Mimosa hostilis ... the authors suggested that yuremamine might bind to MAO ... just like the beta-carbolines in the ayahuasca vine. Unfortunately, there’s no biochemical evidence of this MAO inhibitory activity and, in 2015, the originally proposed structure of yuremamine was shown to be incorrect."

I figured someone here would have come across it before. I was mostly sharing it to spread some of Gallimore's work!

This is a very interesting subject indeed.

But unfortunately, the idea of 'foolproof entheogens' is kinda flawed, IMHO.

When I was in my early twenties, before I had my Caapi vines, I had no MAOI.
But I had some great Mimosa.
And I wanted to try this whole same thing - to try to unveil if Jurema preta (Mimosa hostilis/verrucosa), can be active on its own. Now, this was fruit of a scientific spirit, not an act of bravery or something like that. I had already previously tried doses of up to 20g with no long lasting effects.

So I wheighted 30g of the strongest rootbark I had ever found.
Worked the bark underwater, with no heat, left it for a good while (~1h), it was deep red wine color.
The sediments all went down to the bottom, which made it easy to separate the goods and have it filtered, for the fine dust clogs easily the filters or cotton at the funnel.

After drinking the whole thing, I don't remember vomiting, but I didn't had an Ayahuasca like experience.
It was rather frustrating.
Although, during the next two weeks, I had a very bad experience.
I believe there is indeed a MAOI in Mimosa hostilis, but its a non-reversible MAOI, not that desirable.
And also, for some reason, its content is either too small or of little potency, is not enough to cause MAO inhibition as to activate DMT orally.
During the next two weeks, I spent the whole time in some sort of contact with a paralel reality, and would suffer from synesthesia, I would taste things I would look at - very disgusting, if you're walking downtown to the bank or such things, in the end, I sought refuge in the house of a friend, for I was getting 'drones', whispers in my hearing, for two weeks straight with no rest, that was my most unwise experience in life probably, but I survived, after two weeks I came back to normal, and therefore I deduce it might be a non-reversible MAOI, for its long length of action.

Actually, IMHO its a good thing that this compound happens in such a small quantity or potency, for I believe that non-reversible MAOIs are not the best choice. They're said to bring out as well many side effects and affect one's life much more than the reversible ones.

About the Vinho de Jurema, I believe, and I have also read about it in very old scientific papers on the subject, that there was an exchange in between the people from the brazilian North East (where Mimosa hostilis grows), going to work in the amazon, for what we call 'the rubber cycle', when most latex in the world was still coming from the old "Seringueiras" in the amazon ("the men who milk trees" ), so they brought back home the vine, to the brazilian North East, the Caapi vines, Mariri/Jagube, are plants of the north/northwest of Brazil, and so was born the Vinho de Jurema, when these people brought Ayahuasca back home, perhaps there already is another MAOI source in the Brazilian north east which is held in secret, but AFAIK, they use strains of Caapi vines along with Mimosa hostilis/verrucosa.
I am well sure there are many more MAOI and tryptamine containing plants out there in South America just waiting to be discovered, who knows. Unfortunately, by the fact that the natives had no writing, much technology may have been lost.



Har

Dear Harlequin,

First off all, you are totally right. I chose my words pretty poorly there. Foolproof was a bad one, what I meant was that the *preparation* itself seems foolproof, with no acids/bases/solvents, but I wouldn't want to give anyone the wrong idea or encourage anyone to try this, especially after reading your experience.

Thanks so much for such an insightful report. That sounds like a really scary time, and you've certainly stamped out the embers of curiousity I started the thread with! Let Harlequin's words be a warning.

Passiflora (maracujá ) species could be another group of candidates.

Dear Never Forget,

Indeed, its my warning, no one needs to go through that again, I was about to intern myself into a psychiatric clinic when the two weeks period passed, by very little I didn't had to sign myself in, perhaps for some antipsychotics and sedatives, if it went any longer, I would have sought professional help.
But I was very aware it could be a non-reversible MAOI, and as expected, things came back into balance, it was an aweful experience, it was very demanding.
I am lucky to have good friends who care about me, and that everything went ok in the end.


Dear Jagube:

Great that you brought it in.
But for some reason, I don't believe that Passiflora would be enough to cause MAO inhibition, there are not any relevant MAOI content in this plant genus, and I would also desincourage anyone from trying it on a personal essay. I tried passiflora juice, and some leaf tea, but there is absolutely no evidence of MAOI activity, no registry.

I believe, the secret plant, is indeed B. caapi. Thats my theory, at least.
But, its possible that other local plants might also have some very similar harmine alkaloids as well, or perhaps other tryptamine MAOI alkaloids, when I say this, I mean, totally novel plants, mostly totally unheard of, and being suitable plants for MAOI use, for being reversible MAOIs.
Perhaps one or more new actives/plants might be found in this role.

There are some things one cannot perfect.
If I were after a MAOI, I would go for Syrian Rue. Its VERY strong harmine/harmaline source, and a very small ammount is needed for complete MAOI, and it has very little purgative effect (in my experience at least), so its pretty comfy MAOI, IMHO.

About the video Never Forget has posted, there is a very interesting part of the syncretic culture, they're saying that the 'Virgin Mary' hid 'baby Jesus' at a Jurema tree. We know there are no mimosas in that region, but there are indeed Acacias, which are very similar looking, with their bipinnate leaves and a lot of spines, and we know some Acacia species are closely related to Mimosa species, so much that both contain DMT in several species of their genuses. Now that was interesting.
I do wonder, if in the old world, perhaps somewhere around the mid west, is it possible that there are DMT containing Acacias, because there is Syrian Rue, what if there are, or were, Ayahuasca analogue preparations (MAOI + Tryptamine for 'Ayahuasca effect' ) outside of the americas?



Har

^ there are definitely Jurema 'wines' in Brazil that are active with no other plant...they are used in secretive afro-brazillian spirit worship and dance rituals..
..i've spoken to some of these groups..

And some Passiflora can fully activate DMT whether by MAO inhibition or various mechanisms..
i can attest to this personally..

Search the vast archives of the Nexus..

There is still a lot that the mainstream psychedelic world does not know about, and i think fixating on the 'ayahuasca' complex inhibits research into alternate mechanisms and plants..

..re the title of the thread - i think the only business that's going to go on here is spiritual...though it might be handy for exorcism of businessmen