First of all, thank you guys (especially Ice House) for the nice work and for breaking old (mis)conceptions!

I cannot help finding quite strange the fact that insufflated dmt worked for you, Ice House. SWIM and other have tried snorting the fumarate salt (in quantities as much as the equivalent of 200mg in freebase) and "it works" - shrug, but it's not as pleasant and it doesn't feel nearly as close to the vaped breakthrough experience. It would be nice to describe (unless I've missed it in your posts!) how does it compare to vaped dmt in terms of the depth of experience.

I do not remember well, but I think that in the past some people in this forum reported that snorting freebase is so painful that its' not worth it. Most certainly those who reported snorting freebase did not go into details re the experience.

It is important to note at this point that the freebase absorbs better through the nasal mucosa, which may be the reason it worked for Ice House; I think he was among the few people who tried such a big amount of freebase. I suspect that most of people that played with the freebase just tested the water with smaller doses (e.g. 50-60mg) and the burning (at least the burning compared to the fumarate salt) just put them off any further experimentation.


This is weird, especially since others (amor_fati and q21q21 just come to my mind) have reported very strong experiences with sublingual acetates (please correct me if I get this wrong!)...which brings us to my second point. DMT if administered via routes other than vaping and IV, seems to have a very variable threshold among different people. In pharmahuascam sme people have a full-on experience with just 30mg, other need at leasr 200-300mg. I am inclined to believe that individual physiology is a very strong determing factor for whether a certain dose of oral, sublingual and insufflated dmt will actually work or not.

Ya I meant freebase obviously. I just woke up slept great. No I didn't breakthrough it was mild. I'll probably just keep it freebase if hcl is an oil, it wasn't bad at all I have insufflated much worse things in my life. BTW my name is house, not glyph.

p.s. last night benzyme told me dmt hcl should be less hygroscopic than dmt fumarate. Something to note.


Also I plan on testing insufflated DMT on top of caapi (50-100g brews) and on top of harmaline in the near future to see if we can make the doses stronger.

^^ I'm pretty sure you'll find that -HCL will be MORE hygroscopic than -fumarate. This is what 69Ron always said. I think fumarate was probably chosen as a "research salt" because it wasn't TOO hygroscopic, yet would still be sufficiently soluble for making reasonably-sized doses for IV.

Good thread!

Ice House-I take my hat off to you for your approach

Theres a few points I think are relevant.Firstly, we all have our own nociceptive threshold at which we think 'F..k that- the pains not worth the effort"; depending on whether or not you have nasal problems of different types, this can affect the density of the pain receptors in the nasal mucosa and associated vessels and therby have a bearing on how painful we may find snorting DMT.And some will find it less of a trauma than others.

Secondly, the pH of snot is around 6.91 but can alter when stimulated and this varies from the front of the nose to the more posterior areas where chemical irritation leads to bicarbonate ions being secreted into the mucus thus raising its pH.Again this will vary between individuals with some secreting more HCO3- than others which, to my limited chemical knowledge, can alter solubilities and hence absorption.In essence I concur with Infundibulum when he states that individual physiology definitely will play a part here.

Third, the small arterioles in the body including the nose do not consist of impervious endothelial cells tightly bound together; histologically these veseels contain cells called pericytes which can allow 'flexibility' and hence variable porosity between the cells making the vessel walls.If you were to smear enough of a water-insoluble compound onto the vessel walls then some will make it through into the circulation and I wonder if that hefty line IH took just reflects this.

Endlessness wonders if vaporising is hazardous to the lungs and I would say it is, but somewhat less than burning as is the case with poor vaporisation/changa in a bong/spliffs etc because you in theory are avoiding the production of nasty organic products as a result.Home extracted DMT will invariably have some contaminants (either as a result of residual chems used in extracting or additional compounds in the final product).The pain that people feel from poorly vaped spice reflects stimulation of pain receptors in the larger airways as the most distal parts of the lung, the alveoli, are devoid of pain receptors completely.If you had 100% pure DMT and a device which vaporises it at only the correct temperature then this would reduce potential adverse effects on the lungs further.Its also important to remember that smoking a cigarette takes 20-30 lungfulls of pyrolised organic matter whereas 30 hits of DMT from the GVG would not be done in 7-8 minutes so part of the damage done is a function of inhalations made and the required time period.

The humidified nature of the airways I think would not allow DMT to re-form in a crystallised fashion in the airways after vaporising but hot vapour can definitely upset the function of the cilia which keep the mucus lining the airways moving.

In terms of harm reduction, correct vaporisation is the least harmful option for most people inclined to consume their DMT by 'smoking' but safest way of all, IMO, has to be an IV shot of pharm grade tackle administered under proper sterile conditions.

IME I don't know how anyone is able to insufflate freebase.


I tested a freebase dose of 20mg, I wasn't expecting effects, I wanted to feel the burn,
It was much more painful and discomforting then anything ive snorted, and generally felt very caustic.
The burn is bearable, not intense pain like a 2c, but it lasts quite a long time, even after rinsing with saline, pain is still felt after 1hr, and even at 20mg seems to mess up my nostrils a bit.
On a brighter side the drip is the best tasting drip (<3 dmt)


I don't plan on insufflating freebase again, I doubt it is significantly better at being absorbed in the membrane then a salt.

So I just converted another 200mg of freebase DMT into HCL salt by mixing with water and a few drops of concentrated hcl, then evaporating on a glass pane.

I then scraped up the goo and dissolved by heating slightly in a small vial with 1ml of sterile saline rinse water. pH was tested to be close to 7, a small pinch of bicarbonate was sprinkled in to be safe.

0.5ml of solution (100mg worth of freebase DMT, roughly 135mg in HCL salt) was administered with a glass pipette, little to no pain is felt, and I am comfortably able dose.
Effects lasted 45minutes, and were quite intense, not near breakthrough, but very distorted. I will soon try a higher dose.

I plan to place the solution in a spray bottle used for nasal medication for even easier dosing

yeah I once snorted about ~100mg DMT FB and it blasted me through really fast, only problem was i could still tell my body was in this world because my nose hurt extremely bad from having a strong base like that go up it. haha it was pretty cool because it was the only time i broke through with lights on and music playing.. just no euphoric feeling at the end because of the pain and watering eyes

Excellent report, Mindlusion. Thanks! Any thoughts on how long such a solution would be stable for storage?

Sorry my bad! I weigh about 200 lbs

Fukking metric system!

I found it strange, for several years, that it was not being widely used as a method of administration. My logic was that, I've snorted coke HCL and freebase, meth, heroin, MDA, MDMA all of those worked great for me.

That evening I was just wrapping up weighing out a bunch of spice and packaging it up for long term storage. I am an OCD kind of person so I had all these vials and they all had the same ammount in them and they were full. I had this little pile sitting there and I knew it was more than I could vape. I was kinda playing with it with a razor blade and the the thought occured to me- SNORT IT!

I remember reading years ago about someone snorting 200+ mg and didnt had great effects. I though- well 120mg shouldnt mess me up too much. I considered the burn for a moment and ...well I have an extremely high thresh hold for pain. I was extremely bored. The idea wouldnt go away so I pulverized it into a very fine powder and put it in a line.

2300hrs PST + or - a minute or two

I snorted it up and it did burn a bit but it didnt last long, maybe 20 seconds? After the burn subsided I immediately recognized a DMT come up but it was nothing like vaped spice. It wasnt a rocket blast. It did however grow in intensity pretty quick.

To compare it to vaporized spice in means of time to break through to hyperspace the comparison would be as follows-

When I vape I blast off and am in Hyperspace in about 30 seconds. I find it violent and frightening even after several hundred breakthroughs. I feel like I'm not breathing, my heart is beating hard and fast, I feel unable to do anything but lay there and ride it out. The visuals are very fast, vibratory violent but very beautiful. Upon break through there is normally a FLASH Often I experience amnesia, meaning I dont remember all of the experience because of the instant overload.

When I insnuffelate after the burn I feel it coming on from off in the distance and it gets heavier slowly building I was watching my watch until I forgot about time, however I remember it was about 3-4 minutes until I was totally gone. I was in hyperspace and the breakthrough was gentle. I wouldnt even call it a breakthrough I would call it a transition.

The best part about this hyperspace is that it was and I was interactive. Normally when I vape spice I get comfy in bed or in a recliner. This was very different, I wanted no part of lying down. I walked around my house and the rooms changed as I navigated the walls folded and changed texture and color often displaying a depth or dimension that I am not familiar with. My house was not the same and yet I was able to walk and make turns down hallways and into rooms that dont normally exist. It was all COMPLETELY alien. One of the rooms I entered there was objects that looked to be plant matter or pieces of vines with big green leaves flying through the room and I was getting worried because I wasnt expecting all this to happen and I was beginning to think I had fukked myself up pretty bad and permanently. I wanted desperately to talk to someone so that I could be reassured that I was OK.

Somehow I manage to get on my computure and I ended up chatting with ۩ he was a real savior. I realize that when I was chatting with him about 40-45 minutes had passed.

So many other things happened, I remember that I though I wanted out of this experience, I tried to take a Xanax, I opened what I thought to be the bottle and the pills were flying in the aire around me in formation and they were like stars and my kitchen had this floor that was moving and I though I was going to fall because of how fast it was moving but when I would step the floor would change and so would the layout of the room.

This is so different from vaped spice because I have recall.

The next day I wanted to make sure this wasnt a fluke so I snorted 50mg up the other side and I had pretty good effects. It was nothing like the night before. I didnt break through but I did hear the carrier wave and there was a wonderful colorful display before my eyes. It was DMT all the way. The 50mg experience lasted a good 30 minutes. The come up was slower.

I am planning on doing a 70mg and a 90mg voyage this coming weekend I am considering video taping it.

This has changed me as a person like my first breakthrough did many years ago.

Ultimately I can see 150? Maybe more.

I'm on a high right now that I cant explain. I really want to see where this will take me.

Strange thing is after experiencing this , GONE is the aprehension and anxiety. Anxiety was always HUGE with me. Fear would eat me alive.

I feel I'm a changed human.

..had a similar but not as strong experience of snuffing DMT freebase once, but didn't try it again because
as wolvz wrote
perfectly put wolvz

i have never snorted a lot of substances (only really 2CB, quite good!), so maybe you have a greater nasal tolerance?

you ask, Ice House


perhaps to the world of 'Hekula' spirits..have you tried standing up suddenly and walking around with your arms outstretched? (see Schultz & Hoffman's Plants
of the Gods..)

many thanks for your report!...

So, I went ahead and gave this a ROA a shot with the 90 mgs of DMT freebase that I had left over from the last extraction. It is definitely not something I will be pursuing further.

I chopped the crystal up as finely as I could, but it still looked like extremely ground up bits of glass, which is never a great sign. I smoothed it out into a line and then inhaled a few crumbs at first to see what the burn was like. It slowly grew worse, so I figured I should just get it out of the way. I took the entire line up one nostril and it immediately filled with a searing pain. It was about the same intensity of the 2c-e burn, in my opinion, only difference being that the DMT burn was gone in about 5 or 6 minutes while 2c-e takes around ten for me.

It also took five minutes for the effects to really get started, so I was extremely uncomfortable just for a few minutes just lying on my bed feeling like my nose was on fire. Also, the drip began instantly after insufflation and it while I wouldn't call it searing, there was still a spicy burn going down my esophagus. For some strange reason during the come up I was filled with anxiety (I'm assuming due to the pain), something that never happens with vaporization or pharma/ayahuasca.

The peak only lasted around 5 minutes and I would definitely not call it a breakthrough by any means. I would compare it to around 15 mgs from a vaporizer, whereas I generally require around 30 or 35 to breakthrough.

After the peak, the effects lingered for around 40 minutes, and now at 60 minutes after insufflation I'm completely down. My nose still slightly burns, however. As I said, this is not something I think is much worth pursuing unless you have a very high tolerance for pain and don't mind putting a large amount of material up your nose (I'm guessing I'd need somewhere around 120 or 150 mgs even to breakthrough this way).

Wow. Intriguing.

I've always felt a little uncomfortable with insuffalation because it feels like I'm ruining my sense of smell .. not to mention tearing soft tissue to shreds. To this day I LOVE snorting MDA and small amounts of Ketamine. But me and Kitty are sort of done, and I take MDA 1-2 times a year and it feels like it belongs down my throat not in my nose.

However this might of just inspired me to approach DMT differently. And re-visit insuffalation. Recently extracted DMT acetate hurt my throat a little to smoke through a bong, and I'm not really feeling spending $hundreds on a vapourizer. Finding the money to get a 1/2 pound of Mimosa so I can try a fumarate extraction was sort of where my priorities lie. This seems like a fuller experience, something I could walk around on .. maybe even dance.

This sounds awesome. GREAT TRIP REPORTING.

Anyone aware of the potency ratio between Freebase:Fumarate?

wow! This is a great thread. It sounds like the right dosage may vary from person to person. i really like that you can interact within hyperspace. A transistion sounds much less stressful too. This is something that i definantly will try. I kind of want to roll out to your place this weekend ice house;}
I would like to know how come snorting does not require and maoi? What if you drank a caapi tea or take some harmalas/harmine then snort, would it extend the trip? It should right?
Anyways good work ice house and thank you for sharing it with everybody.....you're a crazy mf!!! I love you brother

skeemer I know from my experience at least that no MAOI was required, this is probably because dmt releases into your blood stream via your lungs... or so I've read somewhere.

I think it actually enters the blood stream through the mucous membrane in your sinus cavity.


Well I just tried 30mg about an hour ago and it was stronger than I expected! Not a breakthrough of course but definitely tripping with OEVs.

I used pure white crystal from a Q21Q21 tek, 15mg up each nostril. It didn't really burn my nose so much as the back of my throat. The nasal drip tasted awful and I had a little trouble swallowing which did distract from the experience a bit. Other than that it was quite nice. In five minutes I was peaking. I started coming down after about 15min and was pretty much down after 35min with some slight sensations lasting another 15-20min.

I may try this again sometime with 60mg.

Even though I didn't find the initial burn of freebase up my nose that bad at all, it's been 3 days and I've had bloody boogers occasionally out of that nostril the past few days.

So yeah, I won't be doing that again. I would experiment further with hcl liquid nasal administration though.

For now, I will smoke...

cheers

Can't say this is my cup of tea as well. I would be interested in trying DMT disolved in a saline solution in a nasal spray applicator of some kind. This used to work for my friend in his cocoa leaf extract days when trying to be discreet. Nasal spray application seems to reduce the burn of pure insufflation.

Very thought provoking post, Ice House, and I thoroughly enjoyed the discussions that followed from all concerned.

Tried snorting around the time first started getting to know DMT, little effect, except burning. Thanks to some accurate descriptions, it looks like too little ground too course on my part.

What did come to mind after reading all the posts, and if this idea is a little nutty, I wouldn't be surprised, but ...

What safety issues would have to be considered for inhaling vape through the nostrils? e.g. would the temperature be too hot make it impossible?

After that, if the exit end of a safety flow chart (so to speak) made any possible health risks minimal, would snorting the vapour - "snortorizing" ?? make any significant gain to make it worthwhile ?

That's a crazy-ass idea!

But it doesn't make much sense, since by inhaling by the nose, you basically drive the smoke to the lungs, which is the same as inhaling vapor by the mouth. Sure, some minute amount may absorb through the nasal mucosa but not really much.

Do you get more stoned if you smoke weed from the nose?

Can't say I have tried weed this way, haven't smoked any for ages - must be over a year. But you're right - crazy-ass idea! Was just reading the posts and then saw the idea in front of me. Now I think about it, exhaling through the nose would probably have been a better way to put the two main ideas of snorting and vaping together!

Thank you for your frame of reference, Infundibulum!