"i would kindly like to remind you that because you think you know everything and have modernized isolated entheogenic alkaloids, does not make you right in any sense."


Dude..what the hell are you talking about??..maybe you should take your own advice..it was YOU in your post that seemed to act like you knew everything!

I never said I know ANYTHING. YOU are the one that seems to think that everyone that smokes salvia is doomed to live your experiences just becasue you had them..even though others have already posted otherwise in this same thread before you!

Go and and offer your opinion sure, but when you start acting like your experience with ANY plant is the be all-end all for everyone else it makes you look, well, arrogant..Why can't it be possible that smoking salvia just isn't for you, while is useful and worthwhile for others??

All this is is a degree of ethnocentricity..thinking you're way is somehow better than others..projecting objectivity onto a subjective experience.

I never said extracting was better either..just made a useful analogy.

And when you say you only advocate shamanic plants..what does that mean?? Even aya when brewed is still an extraction..so are you going to chew down some woody vine pieces and swallow a big mouthful of chakruna or something?? I know thats a bit extreme but think about it..isnt it a bit anal and limiting to think that you should never experiment and try to advance a tek or recipe?? Natives have been experimenting for years..look at yopo preperations..and there are teks for DMT that are environmentally friendly, like the limo teks..so I dunno what the problem is?

This is the same mindset that comes along with the whole "shamanism is fine if you are anything but a white man"..



"Look at what modernization has done to our species longevity, our planets longevity. why would mimicing that advancement somehow make you better than the indigenous users."



Please point out where in my post I stated that my methods were better than indigenous users...seems like you are putting words into my mouth that I never actaully said to prove a point!

I am fully aware of what modernization has done to our planet and other cultures. I spent time in college studying cultural anthropology, shamanism and magical healing tradions, along with environmental philosophy and am still in school studying traditional forms of magical plant healing...so I in no way feel that I know better..I wouldnt be there if I felt that way..

But I dont deny the situation we are in, pretending all technology is bad either..we wouldnt be here on these forums to even discuss these things without the internet..we'd be in the dark disconnected from each other..the interenet brings like minded people together and that way we can spread info faster and it actaully helps progress move into a more prositive direction. Not all progress and everything modern is bad.



"well fractal it is my opinion and i am offering it"



Well that's fine..but dont complain when you get responces back like this when you make posts like that then!..I mean, honestly what else do you expect..you state things so matter of factly like we are sopposed to take your word for it jsut because..even though others have already said it's not true for them...are you somehow saying they are making up salvia experiences on here?

I think that was our point, just the other way around...ya know.


WS

Fractal,

Salvia's never really been my thing, but your passion is pretty compelling, and your descriptions are making me think that it's probably worth a second look.

Thanks for taking the time.

That was the goal of this thread... to get people to take a 2nd look at Salvia divinorum, even if they have disliked it before.

^^hey thanks for posting that..some cool stuff there.

I want to add that I dont want to put anyone off from quidding becasue salvia quids are beautiful...something I plan on exploring more thouroughly in the future..and eventually I want to have group ceremonies with salvia divinorum in lower doses and I think quidding is the best way to do that..

smoking to me is more a solitary persuit, I would do it for slightly different reasons and with a different intent than when quidding..more of an intense exploration of other worlds, or "crossing the hedge" as some heathens might put it..sort of like smoking changa compared to drinking aya...I haven't gone into high doses with quids, but I have been told that smoking is much easier for breakthroughs.

I guess you could say that quids allow one to come and go in and out of trance more freely..smoking can put you right through and you are there until the salvinorin in the system starts to run out..

This thread has made me think about Salvia again. I strongly dislike smoking the stuff. I really have no interest in persuing the smoking again, but I do think I would like to try some fresh leaf quids in the near future. Neat thread Coatl

Swim also wants to try quidding some fresh leaves. Swim only smoked it once and that was enough for him lol.

The point is... the point is that not only does Salvia divinorum's "spirit" not like to be smoked but I believe there is something pharmacologically at work here, weather it's just the absorption or something else there is a major difference between smoked Salvia divinorum and chewing fresh Salvia divinorum leafs which is important to note.

Oh god are we still on this?? How arrogant is it to think that you know how a plants spirit wants to be worked with by others..why dont you just say that she doesn't like YOU smoking her..seriousily this thread is such bullshit..seriousily haven't you ever concidered that maybe it was just too powerful for you and you freaked out becasue of the overwhelming ego death??

Enough people have already stated that they HAVE HAD GOOD EXPERIENCES SMOKING!..so why post stupid responces like that?? Obviously some people are treated just fine by the plant when she is smoked..stop applying your experiences to other people.

If you dont want to to smoke it all you have to do is not smoke it..but dont act like everyone else is doomed to live your horrible experiences.

word. walk your own path. learn from the past to create your perfect moment. It's all subjective to the observer.
study as many systems as you can to assemble yours. be blessed.

Coatl..seems funny how all these other people can offer up expereinces here on YOUR thread, yet even when asked you dont seem to have any personal experience to offter, quidded or otherwise..you quote a lot of shit from other websites and all this "traditional knowledge" in your thread but never seem to have any personal experience to offer up..so why or even how can anyone here take your word for it?

Damn.

Ok.

The thread at the Corroboree illustrates my point much better.

Torsten (the owner and founder of the Corroboree forums) says-





Hehe... yeah...

He asked for you to give PERSONAL EXPERIENCES with Smoking or Quidding Salvia...not your experiences on other forums.

If we wanted to know what someone on another forum thinks about something, we'd probably read that forum ourselves!!

What have you...Coatl...yourself...experienced? Without quoting anyone else!!


WS

I don't often quote from personal experience because I find entheogenic effects to be very personal and hard to describe.

But, in short... I hate smoking Salvia and I love chewing it! It's two totally different experience for me!

I'm not saying smoking Salvia is wrong if that works for you, I'm just saying that if you smoked Salvia and didn't like it that you should give it another try as a quid!

We know that already...tell us WHY?!?!?!? Something other than it's what someone else said somewhere.


WS

It's not scary, it last longer, it's milder and I don't feel delusion.

Coatl,

If you don't want to post about personal experiences, that's fine, however, if you could give us a general idea of what the differences are between routes of administration (other than you like quidding but hate smoking salvia).

Most of us know that smoked salvia is a very strange experience, some like it, others hate it. Most of us, however, know little about quidded salvia, and even fewer of us konw about quidding FRESH salvia.

If you could write up a generic experience/effects for:

FRESH QUID
DRY LEAF QUID
SMOKED LEAF/EXTRACT

That would go along way in making your point.

69Ron has stated many of times how he dislikes smoking slavia but enjoys quidding and has detailed the effects of quidding. Use the search.

I don't post my experiences anymore either. They're mine

What's with all the Coatl baiting? A fresh start should be a fresh start.