BUMP

Drug dealers are driven by money and power. If you are driven by money and power, spice will chew you up and spit you out into a big pile of splodged up bile.

The way of the drug dealer, and the way of entheogens are worlds apart, they are polar opposites, they don't mix. Selling DMT is like fitting a 13 amp socket into the bottom of your swimming pool; and then plugging your toaster into it.

Peace

Macre

LOL

There's one thing I don't quite understand. Members here on the nexus talk all the time about how they share DMT with others and it's fine but as soon as they mention buying or selling a huge deal is made and their accounts get suspended. Don't get me wrong, I encourage extracting yourself and frown upon dealing it as much as the next guy, and I completely understand the moral issues behind this. The thing is, someone posting about giving DMT to someone as a gift and someone posting about selling it are both looked at equally from a legal standpoint I would imagine. They're technically both drug dealing.



Here is an interesting example. Here is a new member with a legitimate question that went unanswered since he was suspended due to talk about buying and selling, even though he very well could have been talking about accepting it as a gift. Even if he was buying it, it would seem he was being intentionally vague about it. Definitely more vague than some people who blatantly talk about giving it away as gifts, which again I believe would still be considered drug dealing.

He then went on to be ridiculed by mods for using words like "the deems". I feel it's possible he may have been "picked on" simply for being a new member or something as little as having a different nick-name for DMT. Although this is a slightly different issue, it's still worth addressing.

I messaged The Traveler about these issues some time ago, to which I got no reply, which is fine. I understand he's probably a busy guy. These are things I've wondered about for a while and it was this recent thread with "beyond-the-infinite" that made me feel the need to raise my voice on the matter. I'm interesting in hearing your guys' take on this.

..Xemnas wrote:
..the difference in penalty, in the eyes of most countries laws, between 'personal use' and 'trafficking' is quite huge..
and they are quite different perspectives..dealing tends to lead to (over)exploitation of both resources and people..

agree your above quoted example is unclear..

do not buy or sell DMT..

Xemnas, I had not seen this happen, you are right it seems vague and its unsure whether he is buying or being given gifts, so I would not suspend him without first trying to establish which it is. Was this long ago? What thread was this in?

Regarding giving it away versus selling, there is a huge difference that I think you are missing out. When someone gives dmt away, they will usually do it because they saw how powerful an experience it is, and they want others to experience it. This means they will also know how it needs to be respected and used only in specific situations and so on. So giving will usually come accompanied by a propper introduction, talking about set and setting, smoking methods, etc. Also this will usually be done with close friends, not with unknown people, so chances of legal problems are even less.

With someone selling, on the other hand, their main motivation is money, so it wont matter so much who it is for. It might be a friend of a friend of a friend that you've never met who's gonna use it, maybe this person has psychiatric problems or does it in an unsafe setting, but since this person is selling, as soon as the money comes in and the dmt goes out, the relationship is "finished", so to say, its as if its not their responsibility anymore. But what if the person who smokes dmt freaks out, goes to the hospital in a bad trip, the police asks questions, then there are way bigger chances it goes back to whoever sold it. Or other similar scenarios... Im sure you can see the difference.

So when we talk about giving away, we also make sure to establish that it isnt indiscriminately giving it away, but rather introducing people directly, showing them the key aspects of preparation, usage and integration, etc etc. This way not only it diminishes problems with the law, but it helps building up a network of people who are respectful and careful about this substance.

For starters Elru,
I've never seen anyone banned nor know of anyone banned without a warning first. This rule and topic isn't about an attitude or gowing with the flow its about the creator, the man who selflessly gives his time and energy to this community not being prosecuted.

I understand and fully agree with Trav's stance and zero tolerance policy. The man can be imprisoned if buying and selling is discussed. So if YOUR freedom was on the line how lenient would you be?

Its not just about getting people to not discuss buying and selling. If trav was ever prosecuted it would be imperative for him to show that he did everything in his power to stop this illegal action. Imo he is going above and beyond by even giving one warning. This isn't an option, this is serious shit.

Just to clear something up:

New members get a first warning before any action is taken, that is also the moment when the discussion starts and where the situation is explained. People get this one time warning since indeed, people tend to skip any rules page.

If people understand the warning and are acting towards it in a positive way then all is ok and we are happy. If the person tries to play down the importancy or just bluntly continues then we suspend.

Then when the person returns from the suspension and still shows a bad attitude then we have a case where a person will get banned.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

I think you mean distribution instead of trafficking since we don't condone trafficking at all.

If something even distantly smells like buying/selling then the warning game starts.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Edit:

Just saw Traveler’s post, which outlines rules and clarifies what should be happening here for me. I still have a bit of an issue with the fact that some of our members can’t keep themselves from jumping on people when they bring up unacceptable subjects. Leaving modding to mods, one post and flagging is enough for us general users on the forum


In my country supply is supply. In theory admitting, or being caught passing someone a joint carries the same legal sanctions as selling it. Often in cases, both involving money and not, there is leniency given for non-profitable transaction. All this is a moot point however, I believe what with the obscurity of our favoured tool and its rather extreme nature there will be significant issues for most who have to deal with being caught with it in any situation at all.

I will follow this by saying that we are on a public forum and have a duty to look after the situation we work in. It is good to cover ourselves as far as is possible. I can see why the possible commercial aspects of this are not something that will be helpful in many ways.

I think we should be realists though, people will come and join our table having reached their place by many different means and situations and biting someone rather than educating them as to what is expected of them here will be infinitely more useful for all involved. Members flagging threads/posts and mods hiding them and sending PMs rather than what often happens with multiple members making repetitive and in the end non-useful comments could save embarrassment and hurt for a number of members who rightly or wrongly have fallen foul of the rules here.

Maybe some of these people we may end up scaring off will actually have an enormous amount to offer the community once settled in. Kick/ban is always there at the end anyway.

This has been discussed ad nauseum already, elru. https://www.dmt-nexus.me....aspx?g=posts&t=3414

Selling DMT is not the same as giving it away CAREFULLY, with respect, with information, with propper introduction to the people who you are giving it away for, which is what we advice here. If someone gives away indiscriminately, we also call them out for it. If you sell, you most def call more attention than giving it away to close friends, because the person who bought from you may tell a friend of a friend of a friend that you have DMT, and since your motivation is money, you'll keep selling it, until you sell to the wrong person and the whole community gets heat from it.... The chances of that happening if youre carefully giving away to close friends is obviously much smaller. It's also a realistic stance, because obviously it wouldnt make sense if we were banning people that said "so I extracted dmt, and I made a session with my best friend...".

The no-buying-talk rule is not only mentioned in the attitude part, it appears very clearly on the bottom of the chat as well as just above the part where you write a post when you click "post reply". Also every new member receives a clear private message that mentions it. So you cant blame us as if we hide the rules in small print in some 200-page long license agreement.

I HAVE seen people get banned for singular mentions of buying or selling. More than once.

I've also seen Traveler reverse one on at least one occasion.

I am very very glad that Traveler took a moment to be VERY specific about the policy. It is fair and makes sense. In my opinion, it is not too much to request that as time passes, that it be be applied judiciously and consistently. I sincerely hope all mods (even those who don't bother to read all posts or updates) are informed of this, and regularly, especially if they have pissy days . . . .having policy clearly elucidated and applied strictly rather than based on whim, mood, politics or personal preference is essential.

Consistency is the key here and it unlocks so many doors it's almost funny/scary.

Thanks Gentlemen.

Trav wrote; So please people, understand that we don't have these rules to annoy you, we have these rules to make sure we will stay and keep helping you with providing a platform to discuss DMT and other entheogens.

Exactly.........

Its about keeping within the law and protecting the site and the core values that go with it. Trav is not just a Genius he is a Polymath.

Within that, I TRUST Trav and all those Mods who see the light of this argument.
I want to help as I have been helped (many times), and until I can I will take guidence from those that already have the knowledge to guide me.

Thank you Nexus from the bottom of my heart.

I agree with this idea.
save the drug talk for another site
going through the process is the main phase of the ritual. imho
then again there are those that barge their way through life and will irresponsibly barge through hyperspace also. most likely with negative affects.

Because this happens.




http://www.justice.gov/u.../Pressroom/2012/045.html

Indictment attached.

Necessary bump.

I think this needs another bump.

I understand the reasons for not talking about buying/selling out of respect for DMT, but in terms of legality is it really any worse than all of us on here talking about how to manufacture a schedule 1 substance in massive amounts?

Yes, very much so. And, we do not talk about manufacture of massive amounts -- we encourage extraction of personal amounts.

I'm quite sure that in most cases someone caught extracting 5-10 grams of DMT in their house (even if it is only for personal use) would be prosecuted much more harshly than someone caught selling a few points on the street.