.

.

Thank you for providing this interesting information.
Here are some photos of the peppermint that grows at a friend's place.

Yes, mint is great. You don't need to do anything. It practically grows itself.

triglav said:
Wow! those pics are amazing.

Needs to be kept in a pot if you want it to stay in one place!

Speaking of dream additions, Lemon balm is even more of a wanderer/invader. From a single plant, one of our plots would be almost entirely swamped with the stuff if we weren't pulling out armfuls of the stuff on an ongoing basis. The one thing that seems to face it off successfully is yarrow.

Thanks for tips downwardsfromzero.

I'm curious if anyone knows why tartaric acid is used for the stabilization of lysergamides, above other acids...?

Also, won't hydrolysis tear apart the tartaric acid and lysergic amides?

Am I correct in saying(?):
The water can have a net lower pH but this is due to the protonation of water by the acid. Thus the hydronium ions are affecting the amides, but not so much the tartaric acid directly.

So when dissolved in water, the corresponding salt does not matter as far as solubility is concerned?


I am confused as I have heard that certain, say, mescaline salts have better solubility in water than others.
Meaning that beyond a molar ratio of acid-base compounds there is more at play here.

Trying to understand as a chem I student

Thanks for your valuable input Kerelsk. Good luck with your studies! Had chem I and II at University. The answer to your question is covered in one of the last chapters in the book "LSD" by Otto Snow. Also wish the cluster headache sufferers relief in dreams, hope this information is of some use.

For those who can't grow the plants as I do for their aesthetically pleasing beautiful flowers in the morning, have read in reviews for fresh heavenly blue morning glory on-line that some have had powerful & even life changing experiences with dreams of seeds direct from certain growers, this would tend to verify the findings of the authors in the 2016 Polish study who found the IT-HB2 seeds (direct from growers) to contain over 3x the amount of LSH as retail sitting on the seed racks. This can mean the difference between 500ug and 1500ug of LSH, and we know from TIHKAL that 1500ug of LAE (believed to be very similar to LSH) is stimulating & LSD like, yet shorter lived.

Additional notes:

Aum_shanti:

Sandgrease:

Nogal:

I also find it interesting that the 2014 Paulke Forensic science paper attached for download further up found no LSH within the HBWR seeds he analyzed, but only LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine. We know that MG has centuries of Shamanic use, while HBWR has no history of Shamanic use.

There is also a paper which shows which genes are responsible for what and also how the biosynthesis really works within the plant. It seems it goes from lysergic acid ---> to Ergonovine and then ----> to LSH. That's probably the explanation for why you will always find Ergonovine in an LSH plant. LSA is as it seems never synthesized by the plant but only a degradation product.

LSH decomposes in neutral water solutions, and quickly in alkaline solutions, and also if heated, but it is quite stable in acidic environments (just like the solution recipe I give). Traditionally (e.g. as reported from Wasson) they only soaked the mushed seeds briefly in water, then strained and immediately drank. Recall that even Hermes (14g extremely visual MG trip report earlier) would acidify his distilled cold water with a squirt of lemon juice beforehand.

Basic overview of this entire thread:

If you do ever dream with the seeds (see my 2 potent experiences in this thread) to remember that LSH (lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) decomposes in neutral water solutions, and quickly in alkaline solutions, and also if heated, but it is quite stable in acidic environments (just like the solution recipe I give). Traditionally (e.g. as reported from Wasson) they only soaked the mushed seeds briefly in water, then strained and immediately drank. Recall that even Hermes (12g extremely visual MG trip report in same thread) would also acidify his distilled cold extraction water with a squirt of lemon juice beforehand.

Researchers from the Polish 2016 study on morning glory seeds found 3x higher LSH levels in fresh seeds or seeds direct from growers ( some growers on line have over 350 reviews for their fresh heavenly blue MG here at bottom of thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=94363 ). The amount of LSH in the seeds was found in levels comparable to LSA (a decomposition product of LSH) within the seeds, which is astonishing. The new study has increased our current understanding of the seeds. The researchers noted high relative abundance of penniclavine as an interesting observation as well.

Penniclavine has excitory effects on the central nervous system [Yui & Takeo, 1958] as well as lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) which also excites the central nervous system in animals & caused dilation of pupils (Glasser, 1961). LSH is very similar to LAE-32 which is described in human experiments in TIHKAL, to be LSD like and stimulating at 1.5mg (1500ug). Albert Hofmann later discovered LSH in MG seeds around 1967 and put colored drawings of it in his book "LSD, my problem child." and apparently told Owsley that it was very "LSD-like".

In the seed embryo:

LSA C16H17N3O = 267 g/mol + acetaldehyde C2H4O = 44 g/mol = LSH C18H21N3O2 = 311 g/mol.

LSD C20H25N3O = 323 g/mol

The end.

Thanks for doing all this, and producing a useful and inspiring summary.

Wishing you a merry midsummer eve and productive summer ahead!

Thank you downwardsfromzero. Paper had contributions by many other experimenters & researchers, members, writers, could not have written it without their valuable input. Have a merry midsummer eve and productive summer as well! I spend many of my days off at the water park down the street, enjoy nature outdoors by the river as much as I can.

Materials used in dreams for hypothetical potent LSH d-hydroxyethylamide saturating/stabilizing recipe, zero sedation, energizing instead...profound entheogenic dreams. See my 2 potent dream experiences in this thread.

Material list:

1. home-grown cactus (main-stay some of the year)

2. miracle grow powder (add to 1 gallon watering can with spout) and feed once a month during growing season for monstrous Heavenly blue MG plants & flowers, very potent seeds!

3. Sherry wine (contains avg of 10mg natural acetaldehyde per 1oz or 30ml). One shot is used in recipe.

4. Peppermint extract, 5 drops used in recipe contain on average approximately 2mg water soluble acetaldehyde/isovaleraldehyde and their corresponding acids.

5. Combination fresh mint/peppermint tea which can be used along with peppermint extract drops, or substituted in place of it in the recipe. Recommend Bigelow mint medley tea which comes individually wrapped in foil pouches for peak flavor, freshness, and aroma.

6. Red light LED bulb, replace your lamp with it, and work only under a red light to prevent destruction of MG seed powder during & once hammered and ground in coffee grinder.

7. DL Tartaric acid, acidify 17oz (500ml) fridge cold spring water to ph=4 with a tiny dash smidgen of it till water reaches ph=4, LSH is very stable in only acidic environments, but decomposes in neutral water, very fast in alkaline water, or when heated. 16.9oz is the size of one of those normal sized plastic coke bottles.

8. 2 jars with clean automotive funnel which each have a loosely stuffed cotton ball in them, use to filter Ayahuasca, cactus, or MG seed solution....get's all the debris out, but leaves only the water soluble actives in solution, have used for decades, beats the heck out of coffee filters which will not anything to pass thru. Your stomach and intestines will thank you for getting rid of the nauseating particles which the cotton ball blocks & collects...no nausea! I have never thrown up in over 65 times using this process with Ayahuasca, cactus, or MG seeds, and always zero nausea to the stomach. The cotton ball & funnel is the best invention of the century, along with the toothbrush.

9. Coffee grinder used after seeds are hammered to a powder inbetween paper plate with hammer.

10. Paper plate with edges folded on ends to prevent loss of seed powder as seeds are being hammered.

11. cotton swab and blacklight in background, cotton swab is dipped into fridge cold seed solution after filtering, then is swabbed onto back of paper plate, plate is taken to another room with blacklight on to observe the beautiful blue glow of lysergic acid amides.

12. Seeds from freezer that had been frozen to preserve super high potency fresh off the vine fall picked pod MG heavenly blue seeds. Other option is to dream fresh heavenly blue MG seeds from growers on-line with over 350 5-star reviews.

One last concluding note:

Study quoted by Aum_shanti (see his thread here at Nexus):

The potent fresh MG seeds I dreamed right off the vine pods in my two powerful dreams were slightly un-ripe from what I remember, and recall the faint smell of acetaldehyde (green-apple like smell) given off the seeds when they were ground.

d-lysergic-acid-methyl-carbinolamide is another name for LSH, lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide.

The end, back to the water park, taking a long rest from writing.

Curious concluding thought...

"Acetaldehyde is one of the most important sensory carbonyl compounds in wine and constitutes approximately 90% of the total aldehyde content in wine. Acetaldehyde can be formed by yeasts and acetic acid bacteria (AAB)."

1 shot of sherry wine which contains on avg 10mg of acetaldehyde is an important ingredient of the LSH saturating/stabilizing recipe given above, as is the fresh from foil packet Bigelow combination spearmint/peppermint "Mint Medley tea" and/or 5 peppermint extract drops mixed all together with the 500ml ph=4 DL tartaric acidified spring water.

Vin Mariani wine with coca leaf was drunk by the Pope and Thomas Edison & leagues of famous people back in the 1800's. It consisted of wine with at least an alcohol content of 15% and added coca leaf (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine) which in vivo (in the liver) turned into coca-ethylene which was orally potent, the secret of it's strong activity was not even discovered until 1994.

Sometimes I wonder if an enzymatic reaction in the liver also has something to do with adducting acetaldehyde to ergine (LSA) to form LSH in-vivo in the liver (unlikely) and/or improving LSH stability in combination with ethanol & acetaldehyde, which is known to drive acetaldehyde adduct formation with tryptophans in a paper I read once still on-line "Tryptophan analogues form adducts by cooperative reaction with aldehydes and alcohols or with aldehydes alone" by J E Austin & H Fraenkel-Conrat (below). After-all we are only dealing with mg amounts.

But a more plausible explanation is that acetaldehyde is adducting on to the indole ring further below in it's structure, creating something more akin to what ald-52 looks like (see attached pic at bottom) according to the aldehydes adduct paper. How this plays out as far as effects-wise/stimulation/etc. in the human body is unknown.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih...v/pmc/articles/PMC49935/
hxxps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC49935/

LSH is a labile adduct of ergine and acetaldehyde, which rearranges to LSA in neutral water, but we know from researchers that it is stable in acidic solutions.

The in-vivo liver adduction hypothesis of "adduction of acetaldehyde to LSA at the bottom of the indole ring" (like adducts paper saids can happen) to something more akin to looking like ALD-52 bottom indole wise ---> might likely help to explain why there is no sedation felt after solution is drunk, instead entire experience is energizing, as if only LSH effects are felt, along with the stimulating penniclavine, and whatever is created with the leftover LSA to something described above.

In The Hallucinogens by Hoffer and Osmond (1967), ALD-52 is listed as having a lower [approximately 1/5] intravenous toxicity (in rabbits), a lower [approximately 1/8] pyretogenic effect, an equal psychological effect in humans, and double the "antiserotonin" effect as compared with LSD.

So it appears that this "mystery compound" created by the adduction of acetaldehyde to LSA will be highly stimulating as we know that ALD-52 is double the anti-serotonin properties of LSD, and whenever a molecule is strongly anti-serotonin, it is also strongly stimulating.

Examples of strongly anti-serotonin (block serotonin) and thus highly stimulating molecules:

* LSD
* our mystery molecule made from adduction of acetaldehyde + LSA at the bottom of indole nitrogen in the liver according to J E Austin & H Fraenkel-Conrat's aldehyde adduction paper. Will look similar to what ALD-52 looks like at the bottom.
* cocaine
* orally active coca-ethylene (coca leaf + wine)
* ibogaine
* mescaline
* psilocybin
* 5-meo-dmt
* bufotenine

69ron earlier in this thread also backs up my claim that there are no LSA sedative effects left over or felt, only stimulating/energizing, euphoric and psychedelic qualities. He writes about this for 2 pages (quoted earlier in this thread) and rightly so, as it is a revelation the first time you experience it. I think the reason some of his conversions worked 100% and others failed completely was because: 1) he did not acidify his solution, and 2) he did not use high acetaldehyde containing wine, but rather mint tea only, and 3) at other times he used rum (not much acetaldehyde that I know of).

The original recipe I used over 20 years ago calls for 500ml of DL tartaric acidified to ph=4 chilled spring water + 1 shot of cold sherry + chilled fresh spearmint/peppermint tea from sealed foiled packet and/or 5 peppermint extract drops added.

Also don't forget Krystle Cole's "ergot wine" experience (several pages long) in this thread.

---

Penniclavine (found in high amounts in the seeds, found to be CNS stimulating, Yui & Takeo) is a metabolite of agroclavine, and is active at the following brain receptor sites: Dopamine D1A, Dopamine D1B, 5-ht2a, Adrenal A2A, Adrenal A2B & Adrenal A2D, in comparison LSD (as far as adrenal sites are concerned) only has activity at A2A, but zero activity at A2B, A2C, and A2D.

The teamwork between LSH and Penniclavine in the seeds is what imho results in the potent & very euphoric experience. Learned the value of teamwork when I trained & worked as a deep water lifeguard for many years...believe I'm a water spirit...the importance of the team working together at all times can mean the difference between saving a life or not. More examples of "entheogenic teamwork between molecules" below:

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
https://journals.plos.or...371/journal.pone.0009019
hxxp://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min

Ibogaine binds directly to the serotonin transporter (SERT), so it does not have to target the 5-ht1a substrate pathway. This could be likely what happens with tetrahydroharmine, as THH in caapi (2nd highest ingredient in caapi after harmine) and ibogaine have similar basic beta-carboline structures.

Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate.

Thomas S. Ray Receptorome study, 4.00=max, 0.00=min.

Ibogaine (inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor). Tetrahydroharmine (serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is an SRI found in caapi.)

Additional 1988 study which backs up the 2011 Thomas S. Ray receptorome study:

Pharmacology of 5-hydroxytryptamine-1A receptors which inhibit cAMP production in hippocampal and cortical neurons in primary culture. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2828913

As we go thru day to day life, the brain serotonin filters (or gates) are in place so that we will not be overwhelmed by the perception of the way things would appear to an un-filtered mind, or "Mind at Large" as Aldous Huxley describes it in "Doors of Perception" as "infinite or eternal". He also referred to the visions as coming from "the other world" in his book "Moksha". I prefer to think of it in similar terms as well "the spirit world" or "the other world".

5-ht1a inhibition (in green above) theoretically causes this filter system to be lifted, and the infinite mind to manifest in combination with oral dmt from traditional psychotria for example.

Dr. Nichols:

An example of the importance of adding the serotonin reuptake inhibition properties of 5-meo-dmt for example to dmt (which totally lacks 5-ht1 reuptake properites on it's own) is described in combination experiments in James Oroc's book "Tryptamine Palace". This is the same way the snuff's are used in the amazon, as they naturally combine dmt with additives which cause the reuptake of 5-ht like bufotenin for example (giving effects which last 3 hours)...or as Ayahuasca is used traditionally in the Amazon, teamwork combining caapi with admixture. This way, the dmt in admixture leaf psychotria targets the other 20% of brain receptors very heavily (see dmt receptorome in chart above), while caapi being an SRI inhibits the other 80% of brain 5-ht at 5-ht1a (inhibiting the brain filters normally used day to day in survival mode) just like the other oral entheogens above like LSD, mescaline, ibogaine, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenine in snuffs.

Below: 1) Fresh foil packed Mint Medley tea, 2) Famous Vin Mariani wine created in 1860, 3) LSH is the closest thing in nature to LSD (blotter.com artwork).

The Italian scientist Paulo Mantegazza experimented with coca in 1859, and wrote a paper enthusiastically recommending it: ‘I would rather have a life span of ten years with coca than one of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 centuries without coca.’

Interesting facts about coca wine:

The drug laws really were relaxed back in the late 1800's, just about everything was legal. Check out the label on the Armbrecht coca wine "Children dosage, half or quarter of a wine-glass full." There was about 7mg of cocaine (1 coca tea bag = 5mg cocaine) in each oz of wine, 21mg in 3oz. In most users, cocaethylene produces euphoria and has a longer duration of action than cocaine.

Cocaethylene increases the levels of serotonergic, noradrenergic, and dopaminergic neurotransmission in the brain by inhibiting the action of the serotonin transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and dopamine transporter. These pharmacological properties make cocaethylene a serotonin-norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor [SNDRI; also known as a "triple reuptake inhibitor" see post above].

The entheogen Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Ayahuasca with caapi, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, snuff's are SRI's or serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

Cocaethylene has a higher affinity for the dopamine transporter than does cocaine, but has a lower affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters. In McCance-Katz et alia's 1993 study cocaethylene "produced greater subjective ratings of 'High' in comparison with administration of cocaine or alcohol alone."

.

Concluding notes on the mint used in recipe:

Recall that it is believed by many that a CWE (cold water extract) of ergot was used in the sacred brew the initiates drank at Eleusis in ancient Greece for over 2000 years straight. We know from the writings that the brew also had mint added to it (which would theoretically contribute to changing the brew to one with more concentrated LSH). The water soluble aldehydes: acetaldehyde & isovaleraldehyde, are not only found in peppermint but mint as well.

CWE of ergot contains similar alkaloids as found in a CWE of morning glory, called Ololuiqui (Rivea corymbosa) by the Atecs.

2) We know from Plato's writings that the priest administering the sacred brew were seen with purple stains on their robes (see the book "The Road to Eleusis" by Wasson, Hofmann & Ruck), which likely came from sclerotia of the ergot fungus. When a CWE (cold water extract of ergot) is performed, the toxic non-water soluble ergopeptines are left behind and only the good water soluble psychedelic alkaloids dissolve into the water...there was plenty of ergot growing in ancient Greece at the time, and would have been more than enough to serve the hundreds of people who made the pilgrimage to Eleusis to drink the sacred brew.

Another option was Claviceps paspali infected wild grass Paspalum distichum L, which has been known to grow in the famous Rarian plain adjacent to Eleusis. It contains identical alkaloids as found in the Mexican morning-glory seeds. We also find from the writings that several people had snuck the brew out of Eleusis and consumed it at parties.

The Eleusinian Mysteries were initiations held every year for the cult of Demeter and Persephone based at the Panhellenic Sanctuary of Eleusis in ancient Greece. They are the "most famous of the secret religious rites of ancient Greece". Persephone's rebirth is symbolic of the rebirth of all plant life and the symbol of eternity of life that flows from the generations that spring from each other. Numerous scholars have proposed that the power of the Eleusinian Mysteries came from the kykeon's functioning as an entheogen, or psychedelic agent.

The initiates, sensitized by their fast and prepared by preceding ceremonies, are believed to have been propelled by the effects of a powerful psychoactive potion into revelatory mind states with profound spiritual and intellectual ramifications. Men, women and even slaves were allowed initiation. Plato, "the ultimate design of the Mysteries...was to lead us back to the principles from which we descended...a perfect enjoyment of intellectual [spiritual] good."

The main constituents of the Mexican morning-glory seeds are also the main alkaloids in ergot growing on the wild grass Paspalum distichum L. This grass grows commonly all around the Mediterranean basin (where the Eleusian rites were held) and is often infected with Claviceps paspali. It contains only alkaloids that are hallucinogenic and which could even have been used directly in powder form. The famous Rarian plain was adjacent to Eleusis.

Krystle Cole:"Isn't Ergot what Socrates used to take at Eleusis?" I thought it was kind of cool to be taking something that the founders of our democracy used to take, but that our current democracy has made illegal.

"Yes, except for he did a water infusion of the ergot, instead of alcohol."

---

Dream procedure:

1) 50-100 seeds = light, 100-250 seeds medium, 250-400 seeds strong, 400+ seeds heavy.

2) Room was set up with a red light lamp in place of regular light to prevent destruction of MG alkaloids to light.

3) 250g fresh dry seeds right off the vine in the fall (I grow a dozen plants every year for their visual aesthetics & flowers) were first crushed with a hammer in between a paper plate with the edges of the paper plate folded in to prevent loss of crushed seeds.

4) The crushed seed powder from the plate was emptied into a coffee grinder and ground into even tiner particles, not quite a dust.

5) A 1-liter mason jar was filled with 500ml (half-way) fridge cold spring water acidified slightly to ph=4 with a tiny smidgen dash of DL-tartaric acid powder. (do not use tap water as the chlorine can destroy the fragile alkaloids). Spring made Chilled Bigelow Mint Medley tea (comes in a sealed foil packet for freshness, important!) & 5 drops (.25ml) of peppermint extract (using a pipette) & 1 shot of sherry wine (contains on average 11mg acetaldehyde) was then added to the solution as well & jar contents were stirred. Do not overdo the drops of peppermint extract or solution will taste like mouthwash.

6) The crushed seed powder was then added to the 1-liter jar and shook a bit, let sit in fridge for 20 minutes with occasional shaking.

7) The solution was then filtered thru a cotton ball stuffed in a funnel, and put back into fridge to sit for several hours, with shaking once per hour.

8] Cotton end of an ear cleaner was dipped into the fridge solution and then swabbed onto the back of a paper plate--plate was taken to another room with a blacklight to observe the beautiful blue glow of lysergic acid amides.

9) The solution was then drunk in dreams.

---

Details of cotton ball stuffed in a funnel filtering:

You should love the cotton ball filtering, it works for filtering out the debris from Ayahuasca, Cactus, or Morning glory seeds, when and if the cotton clogs, you simply replace it with another and continue filtering, may take 2, 3 or more cotton ball chang-ings, but your entheogenic brew will come out super clean and active, your stomach and intestines will thank you--no nausea! Yes, coffee filters are useless. Have dreamed this method of filtering for decades--get's all the nauseating particles out but leaves the water soluble actives in solution. Beats the heck out of useless coffee filters which will not allow anything to flow.

To use: just put one cotton ball in a large clean funnel to make it sediment free which reduces or eliminates nausea to the intestines...have two of these funnels with a cotton ball stuffed in them sitting in a large tall jar sitting side by side so that you can pour off liquid from funnel #1 into adjacent "funnel in a jar #2" to continue filtering once the 1st jar's cotton clogs up or slows down the flow too much, continue pouring off the funnel's contents back and forth changing out the cotton when or if it clogs.

When you are done with your cotton ball in a funnel filtering, take all your spent cotton and combine it in your hand into a single wad, make a fist and wring out any leftover liquid into a final funnel in a jar with cotton ball stuffed in it, to get every last bit of particle free liquid. You will want to use the larger size black funnels that you can find in your nearest automotive store, buy several of them.

The end. Be safe in dreams, the CWE extraction is the method the Shaman's and indigenous people used in South America, it is harm reduction (no eating of seeds).

Courtesy, Ultraviolet catastrophe.

Could you use any other acid than tartaric acid? For instance, could you use lemonjuice instead?

Yes dragonrider, Hermes and Nogal always used lemon juice. Lemon juice also contains natural aldehydes. Their trip reports (both with 400 to 500 seeds) are in post #41 one third of the way down. I only dreamed it because that's what chemist Peter Webster always used (see his amazing trip report above as well) and TIHKAL mentions of course that d-tartaric is used to salt lysergic acid amides as well, even though supposedly the alkaloids are already in salt form in the seed embryo, but I cannot verify that as fact. But of course the extraction needs to be acidic in order for the LSH in the seeds not to re-arrange back to LSA, which will happen in neutral water, alkaline water very fast, or when heated. However, in acidic water, the LSH is quite stable, esp in cold water. Have seen DL tartaric at auction and ***zon. My bottle of it is over 20 years old, still good.

Fresh seeds or seeds direct from grower (search fresh heavenly blue mg on-line) will have over 3x the amount of LSH as compared to seeds you will find on the retail seed racks in the store according to the study, and in my own experience as well. Big difference. Read the reviews (over 300) for some heavenly blue MG on-line. This difference is significant, and can mean the difference between 500ug and 1500ug of LSH, and we know from TIHKAL that 1500ug of LAE (believed to be very similar to LSH) is stimulating & LSD like, yet shorter lived.

If you do locate or grow some fresh seeds, then vacuum pack and freeze the extra seeds and they will retain their potency for years this way.

P.S. A 2014 forensics paper from Paulke (see below) found no LSH in HBWR seeds, but only found LSA & iso-LSA (83-84%) & ergometrine (10-17%) & rest: lysergol, elymoclavine & chanoclavine. We know that MG has centuries of Shamanic use, while HBWR has no history of Shamanic use.

Ref: Paulke A, Kremer C, Wunder C, Wurglics M, Schubert-Zsilavecz M, Toennes SW. Identification of legal highs—ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products. Forensic Sci Int. 2014;242:62–71

Hey Tregar!

Thanks for continuing with posting interesting information.

If understand correctly, the people who were doing the Eleusinian Mysterie rituals, were doing a cold water extract from ergot sclerotia ? Or where they doing a water extract on the grass infected with ergot mushroom ? Maybe the relationship between the mushroom and the grass plant also has something important to do with the metabolism of the ergot alkaloids ? For example the seeds of the grass. Maybe there is some importance in the honey dew as well that some of these Claviceps fungis species secret ? Do we have any concrete answers to these questions ?

Any further thoughts are much appreciated!

A very interesting quote from wikipedia:


quote from www.microsporemaster.com



Here are some interesting links that may prove useful for the discussion in general:

https://www.microscopema...om/claviceps-fungus.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot#