I've tried the rue 10x extract a bunch of times and haven't really felt anything from what should be equivalent to 4.5g of rue. So I'm guessing it's bunk and the reason why the capsuled mimosa didn't really work. If all goes well I'll be trying actual rue tonight.

Interestingly, I've used 10x rue extract with good results potentiating MHRB brew.

Peace

I'll stay out of this discussion since I only use caapi + hawaiian psychotria leaf. Continue on.

What, EXACTLY, do you mean by above threshold?

Obvious psychotropic effects with appreciable psychedelia. Not profound, but not subtle. Level 2, on the Tim Leary "trip scale". https://www.zamnesia.com...chedelic-experience-n110

Level 3 is quite attainable via this ROA. 4 and 5 not so much. There is significant individual variation on RIMA dosing.

Peace

So I took slightly over 3g of rue, boiled it three times (with a pinch of vinegar) for about 40 minutes and then reduced the combined liquid. Took some LEO with a tiny amount of food, then 20-30 minutes later drank the rue tea with a few more drops of LEO. I don't see why people complain so much about the taste, it was just like a regular medicine bitter taste. 30 minutes after that I swallowed 3 MHRB capsules with about 0.6g each, so slightly under 2g. I was starting to feel the rue.

After a few minutes I felt I had to get out of my bed to pee but getting up made me realize the effects of the rue were already too strong, too much dizziness and nausea and I have no idea how much stronger they might get or how long they would last like that, I decided it was too much for my first try of oral/rue and made the decision to throw up. Once I started it kept going, even once there was nothing left to throw up, but eventually I got stable enough to leave the bathroom and lay down in my bed.

I don't know what effects are from rue and what effects are from mimosa, I don't know how much mimosa got absorbed, but I had mild visions while in bed. These weren't fractals or anything like that, they were full blown (normal terrestrial) scenes, they were not super vivid but they were clearly there, like low brightness blotches of scenes taking over the blackness behind my eyelids, once or twice covering the entire field. They came more easily if I relaxed my intent and allowed whatever to show up but I was able to exercise some control over it. My "mental" imagery was also enhanced. And obviously, there was also a shift in my thinking patterns in general but that is difficult to describe. Oh, when I got up to pee again a few hours later I saw the "tracing"(?) effect that people keep mentioning.

I'm happy to see that the rue worked. I'll be trying a much lower dose next time, maybe as low as 1g.

1 gram won't be enough for MAO-A inhibition, 2 to 2.5 grams is like the low/light end for the MAO-A inhibition. 3 grams is a good moderate dosage, 4 grams can be quite strong, so i would suggest stick around 2 to 2.5 to 3 grams. It's pretty easy to tell the Rue apart from the Mimosa, especially when you take just the Rue and see what it does.

Sounds like you probably just got the Rue's effects, it causes tracers/trailing, nausea/vomiting (although some nausea can happen in the 3 gram range, vomiting for me most occurs in the 4 gram range, usually although sometimes i can purge on 3 grams), enhancement of mental imagery, some very mild closed eyed visuals for me personally, dizziness/motion sickness.

Also, don't eat beforehand, it'll throw off the absorption/timing of the DMT. Ideally you wanna avoid food a few hours beforehand so that your stomach is empty and able to digest/absorb things properly.

1.8 to 2.4 grams of Mimosa should be a good bit noticeable ime, especially 2.4 to 3 grams which is the low dose i stuck with for a bit when i first started out, a good full dose of Rue and 3 capsules (about 2.4/2.5 grams) provided quite the low level but still powerful and could be intense, effects.

But yeah, just in case, i would suggest taking either the Rue capsules next time and taking the Mimosa 30 minutes afterwards, or drinking the Rue tea again and taking the Mimosa about 5 to 10 minutes after, just in case. As i said i haven't worked with Rue tea but the timing could be a little different compared to capsules, i'm not sure, but once you get it down right it'll definitely work

Also, alternatively you can try out Moclobemide, a pharmaceutical reversible MAO-A inhibitor which can activate oral DMT but doesn't cause any purgative effects and tracers/trailing, but then you'd miss out on what Rue/Harmalas bring to the table since they have other actions than just inhibiting MAO-A, but both Moclobemide and Harmalas/Rue are pretty cool, i like them both.

Also be aware that if you consume Harmalas/Rue more than say once a week, a reverse tolerance will start to build up, so if you take the Rue/Harmalas and then a few days later take it again, the second dose will be a bit stronger, so you can keep taking the same dosage and it'll keep getting stronger.

Oh I just want to see how a lot less rue affects me, how much the nausea/dizziness goes down and if I still feel something from much less. I might vape a little to see if the rue helps but I'm thinking of skipping the mimosa capsules to gain a little more familiarity with the rue. I had gotten used to basically no effect from the extract and wasn't expecting the tea to hit me so hard.




Yea, lots of motion sickness. The vomiting started as a choice, to contain the experience as I began to freak out about the dizziness that was growing stronger. I don't know if I would have been able to avoid it or not. That is exactly what I experienced.




How do you consume the LEO without food? My understanding is that taking it plain can irritate the throat and it doesn't really dissolve in liquids. Capsules maybe? Don't you need a little food to tell the stomach to not ignore the capsules and begin digestion?




I started feeling the tea about 30 minutes after ingestion, and the feeling grew over the following 30 minutes (or something like that, I was no longer keeping track), stabilized for maybe an hour, and then I'm not sure as I sort of fell asleep, the dizziness went down to basically nothing a few hours later but there were still tracers. Any idea how closely the mental effects align with gut inhibition?




They don't sell that here, at least not without a prescription.




I wonder if the 10x extract that I took several times in the week prior to this, quietly built some sort of reverse tolerance without actually having noticeable effects. How low were you able to take your doses with this reverse tolerance? Is the reverse tolerance for the mental effects only or does it also impact gut maoi?

Yeah that's a good idea, i do recommend getting familiar with Rue's effects first, for sure, and no doubt, it can hit pretty hard.



It's okay to throw up if you freak out, i do sometimes, though it's best to try to keep it down as long as possible, but nothing at all wrong with throwing up if you feel things getting too strong for you, but early purging can end up wasting a dose on occasion.



I put the Lemon EO drop by drop (using one of those dropper things) into a capsule, and then consume it, works very well. Capsules dissolve fast, within maybe 3 to 5 minutes, i've never had issues with capsules not dissolving. The only thing i've noticed about Lemon EO is that in the beginning i had some heartburn, but about 75 to 150mgs of Zantac works for that, and any dose of Lemon EO above 7 drops, beginning with 8 drops, seemed to cause me some diarrhea as the Lemon EO got my digestion moving but i have a messed up gut anyways so the diarrhea could've just been my issue, other than that you can get the Lemon burps but that's never bothered me at all, much prefer the taste of Lemon to the taste of Rue lol.



The gut's MAO-A inhibition, ime, usually lasts a max of 2 hours, but that's with capsules of Rue seed powder, and encapsulated Rue/Harmala extract, with tea the gut's MAO-A inhibition could be a bit shorter i'm thinking, but i'm not sure. MAO-A in the brain can still be inhibited for a few good hours, and i've noticed for about maybe 2 to 3 days or so after the Rue/Harmalas/Moclobemide that the rise in neurotransmitters can stick around, so idk if brain MAO-A stays inhibited for that long, or if it just takes a couple days or so for neurotransmitter levels to return to normal. And yeah ime i generally feel the Rue starting around 30 minutes, sometimes around 15 to 20 minutes for the first mild wave, then around 45 minutes is when i feel the first real wave of it starting up, it'll then slowly get a bit stronger over the next 45 minutes, and the last half of the second hour is when it really ramps up, then after 2 full hours things stabilize/calm down.



I order my Moclobemide online without a prescription since it's not available in the US, although it is available for prescription in Canada and Australia, maybe some other places, which if it's available for prescription where you are i would suggest maybe giving it a try, i certainly wouldn't mind having a prescription for Moclobemide lol, heck i'd take it in my day to day life if i could, sure beats SSRIs imo lol.



Possibly, although ime i've found lower dosages of Rue/Harmalas to build up the reverse tolerance a lot more slowly and not as strongly, whereas moderate to high to heavy dosages build it up faster and more strongly, and too low of a dosage doesn't seem to build up the reverse tolerance at all, that i've noticed so far, but i mainly stick to moderate to high dosages, only really enter heavy Harmala territory by letting the reverse tolerance build up so i don't have to take as much Rue. Plus i like the reverse tolerance because it does away with the nausea/vomiting, cleans up the bodyload, and reduces the dizziness/motion sickness and motor function impairment. The reverse tolerance mainly impacts the effects of the Rue/Harmalas, doesn't really seem to do anything different with the gut's MAO-A inhibition except for making it stronger as the dosage increases.

I did the rue tea (1g) with 1.2g of capsuled MHRB. It was an experiment, I know the dose is too low. I barely noticed any effects, likely all from the rue. There was some nausea but it was mostly from the "yuck" factor of the tea and swallowing capsules. I'll be doing rue tea (2g) with 2.5g capsuled MHRB. This is similar to the doses listed in the thread that was linked to previously, so I'm expecting noticeable but manageable effects.

I did the rue tea (2g) with 2.5g capsuled MHRB (25 minutes later). The rue was manageable but it felt like it was close to being very unpleasant. I did not feel anything that I could identify as being dmt, my impression is that I only felt the harmalas. I wondered if eating something with the capsules would have helped. I fear my mimosa may be of poor quality. It was an unpleasant experience overall, no real nausea but just unpleasant, no visionary effects (no OEV and no CEV), I could hear more detail in music. There was sadness but I can't really blame the plants, it was likely just me laying in bed for hours with nothing to distract my mind from my problems. The prospect of doing 3g again to get the dmt to be active is not appealing. The short trips from vaping are starting to look more and more appealing.

Use the Rue seed powder in capsules rather than Rue tea, do not take less than 3 grams of Rue, and take the Mimosa capsules 30 minutes after the Rue capsules, it'll work, if it doesn't, then your Mimosa is weak, otherwise, it's the Rue and the timing.

Or take some Rue seed powder capsules or a Rue/Harmala extract capsule, and 30 minutes later take some Mimosa or Acacia residue capsules, it'll work.

2 grams of Rue is a light dose, but you really wanna go for 3 to 3.5 grams of Rue. Also don't forget about the Harmala reverse tolerance, if you've taken the Rue a few times close to each other the next dosage will be stronger.

I can't really afford to buy a coffee grinder right now. Though as far as cost goes, brewing is probably going to end up being more expensive so it might be better for me to figure this out sooner rather than later. Is there anything I should know about types of grinders when I do? Is there a specific type that I need to look for? Already bought a pepper grinder that didn't work, would hate to buy a coffee grinder only to find out it can't do the job.




I have a sense the rue would completely dominate the experience at 3 grams (even with the active dmt), and I don't like the rue at all so far, even at 2g, there was nothing at all positive about it and it just went on and on. Well, I guess at 3g there was some value in it, once I got the nausea/motion sickness under control. Perhaps I just need to develop this "reverse tolerance". I will continue testing but there is one thing I'm a little confused about. You say the effects get stronger but cleaner, less of the nausea/motion sickness. Exactly what effects get stronger, and what effects smoothe out with the reverse tolerance?

Any coffee grinder should do, i would think. I just get a cheap 20$ one from walmart or what not, works fine.

Just so you know, Rue on it's own isn't particularly pleasant, or interesting, i mean it can have it's interesting moments from time to time and there are indeed some effects of Rue/Caapi/Harmalas that makes it Aya that contributes to the experience, but without the DMT in the mix it's nowhere near as interesting. If you wanna clean up the bodyload, add in 3 to 4 grams of dried Lemon Balm leaf, if you're still using the Lemon EO take it out and just stick with the Lemon Balm, it won't help with nausea but it will definitely clean up the bodyload.

You want the Harmalas to be dominant, otherwise you won't have enough MAO-A inhibition to fully orally activate DMT, that's what Aya is all about. If you just want orally active DMT, use Moclobemide, otherwise when using Rue/Caapi/Harmalas, you're going to have their effects in the mix.

With the reverse tolerance, the more regularly the Rue/Caapi/Harmalas are consumed, the stronger in effect they will get, including the nausea/vomiting and bodyload and other side-effects, which you either have to ride out/put up with or use Lemon EO to see if you can block them out long enough to build up the reverse tolerance (which i did with Rue/Harmala extracts and works like a charm), and after 2 to 3 weeks or so those side-effects will go away and the Rue will feel much cleaner. So all effects will get stronger and stronger, but after a few weeks the side-effects will go away.

You're confusing me. So ALL EFFECTS will grow stronger but eventually the SIDE EFFECTS will go away? What exactly do you regard as side effects (that grow stronger but go away), as opposed to main effects (that grow stronger and don't go away)? The nausea/motion sickness aside, I don't think I would call the other negative effects "bodyload"; the physical sensations were fine, kind of pleasant even, it was the "mindload" that bothered me, a sense of fogginess and "alert" unease, hard to describe exactly. Like comparing to vaped DMT (non-breakthrough doses), I felt odd, alien on DMT, but clear, "sober", while on the rue I felt uneasy and "drunk".

Yup, the headspace is also part of the bodyload from Rue, the headspace and even physical effects can resemble being a bit drunk on Alcohol but more clearheaded. The Rue also has some dreamy/sedative qualities that can make you feel a bit sleepy/tired and relaxed. Also Rue has some anti-anxiety effects, but can also at least physically cause some anxiety as well. If you mix Lemon Balm with the Rue, the bodyload and headspace both clean/clear up and Rue feels way better. Also you can add a little bit of Caffeine in the mix if you wanna add some stimulation to it, but keep in mind Caffeine is metabolized by CYP1A2 which Harmalas potently inhibit, so the dosage of Caffeine will be potentiated and so a good bit less of a dosage of Caffeine would be needed, so start low on the Caffeine and work your way up to where you'd wanna be, if going that route. I've included Caffeine with my Rue quite a lot, i like it.

And yes, all effects will get stronger the more regularly the Rue/Caapi/Harmalas are consumed, once your body gets accustomed and desensitized to some of the actions of the Harmalas, like possibly it's Acetylcholinesterase inhibition or something else, the nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, dizziness, motion sickness, headache and some other side-effects go away, the bodyload cleans up, and the motor function impairment is reduced, while the main effects of Harmalas remain. The bodyload does include sensations, but mainly i'm referring to the physical effects rather than sensations.

Why did you say to remove the LEO if I add the lemon balm?

Because they have similar properties in terms of how they clean up the bodyload and headspace, but they also have some uniqueness. I don't think it'd hurt to mix Lemon Balm and Lemon EO, i have, but it's good to not have too much in the mix because Harmalas and DMT are very easily alterable by anything that's in the mix, if you wanna mix them you can, but so far i haven't had much experience with Lemon EO in the mix with Rue and Mimosa/Acacia, i have had experiences with them but the Lemon EO does alter things to a certain degree, not in a bad way though i don't think, but i've had a lot of experience with Lemon Balm with Rue and Mimosa/Acacia and they go very well together.