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Cannabis as an anti-psychotic? Options
 
pitubo
#21 Posted : 2/26/2017 1:41:28 AM

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Entheogenic-gnosis! Once again, thanks for maintaining your excellent posting hygiene, and being terse and to the point and leaving out all the superflous bits.

entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
While CBD May be great for treating other psychotic disorders, particularly ones which THC would exacerbate like schizophrenia, and while it may also help bipolar, I see the THC as being very beneficial for those with bipolar.

Note that the thread starter originally asked specifically about anti-psychotic effects of cannabis. Most people who replied, concurred that CBD is the cannabinoid of choice here.

entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
From first hand experience, I have seen a many bipolar people effectively pull themselves out of manic episodes with cannabis, ans while CBD May have helped, it was the THC that had the immediate effect, and which prevented the manic episode from occurring.

But how do you know that the THC did all that you claim it did?

Surely you agree that your mere personal second-hand observation of a few cases can hardly qualify as a scientific study.

entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
The studies claiming cannabis is detrimental for those with bipolar have been disputed in their methods and results, and further studies only show cannabis having a benneficial effect for individuals with bipolar.

So which studies were disputed by which other studies? You're not providing any facts or references.

I also notice that you are bending the terms of the discussion. We are talking about the effects of the different cannabinoids CBD and THC, not about cannabis in general. As far as I know, the older research that pointed out cannabis as a risk factor for psychoses has been superseeded by new insights about the nature of the different active components of cannabis. Specifically the differences between THC and CBD have created a new paradigm surrounding cannabis and psychosis.

[unnecessarily lengthy quotes omitted]

Then, you quote some text from a newspaper and a site "hellomd.com" that suggests being a medically credible source, but is clearly primarily involved in sales of cannabis related products. Both articles are almost entirely vague about the important distinction between THC and CBD.

Only the cannabis products website actually links a bit of scientific research, this article: http://www.ukcia.org/research/C...larAffectiveDisorder.pdf. It is a review of earlier research articles. If you care to read the article (did you?), it differentiates between CBD and THC. About THC and borderline attachment disorder (BAD), it states:

Quote:
Many of the adverse effects of cannabis (usually attributed to its THC content) result from relatively high dose or chronic use. Cannabis can cause an acute psychosis in previously normal individuals, but those with mental illness are more vulnerable (Johns, 2001). Such reactions are dose-related and appear to be becoming more common with the present-day recreational use of potent cannabis varieties such as ‘skunk’ and netherweed (Wylie et al., 1995). Heavy cannabis use can also lead to an acute functional psychosis with marked hypomanic features (Rottenburg et al., 1982; Johns, 2001). In patients with BAD, the duration of cannabis use is associated positively with the duration of manic, but not depressive, episodes (Strakowski et al., 2000) and substance abuse in general appears to increase the severity of the illness (Cassidy et al., 2001) and to increase suicide rate (Dalton et al., 2003)

So the research that you indirectly point to, suggests that THC increases the duration of manic episodes. That is the clear opposite of what you claim.

entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
Do you personally know any bipolar individuals who medicate with cannabis?

I don't know for sure, since I am not cognizant of the full medical and psychiatric status of the cannabis users that I know. Also, in my country, bipolar isn't a popular diagnosis among resident psychiatrists. I think they like it more to label people here as borderline or adhd. Anyway, I know plenty of people who have or could have many kinds of labels attached and I've witnessed their responses to various types and forms of cannabis for over 30 years and I have my suspicions. I also remember what it was like before all the hybrid strains appeared.

At some time in the past I dated a girl who was a diagnosed schizophrenic, and at the time, she reacted very positively to high CBD cannabis extract, the more CBD, the better. With the help of the CBD, she was able to stay of the risperdal.

All that is however only anecdotal, and can at most point towards avenues for research. In comparison to proper research, personal anectdotes are dubious as a basis for claims of fact.

entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
I can tell you from first hand experience that cannabis can be amazing for certain bipolar individuals, it's effective, and it often works better than any of the pharmaceutical mood stabilizers given to these individuals. I have watched an individual counter manic states with cannabis, this individual can tell when mental shifting into a manic state is about to occur, this individual will get all the early symptoms of this manic state, all the physical and mental ques, then will smoke cannabis, and like magic this individual will be back to a more or less baseline functioning mental state. I have a bipolar ex-girlfriend, and it's the same case, she is a nightmare without cannabis. This is a case where it's not just "review some studies and take a side" I have actually seen this work.

How do you knwo what it is that you are seeing? What if your observations are tainted by your wishes to see a specific outcome?

Are you at all familiar with the principles of critical analysis?

entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
http://www.maps.org/research-archive/psilo/Cannabis-and-Psilocybin-for-Bipolar-Disorder.pdf
This PDF published by MAPS offers further anecdotal evidence of an individual who treated his bipolar with cannabis.

Thanks, you've already quoted this before in another post upthread, you do not need to quote it again, it will not make it more valid. It is just an anecdotal story, not science. It doesn't rel;ate to the thread here, because it only doing blanket coverage of cannabis use, without analysis.
 

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Swayambhu
#22 Posted : 3/1/2017 9:28:15 PM

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The problem with anecdotal evidence is that there are people who self-medicate with cannabis (and many other things besides) thinking it is doing them good, when in reality it is not.

Again, it's only my personal observation, viewed through the lens of my personal prejudices, but in my opinion cannabis can also inhibit certain critical capacities of chronic users who are otherwise perfectly sane; indeed it's something I've observed in myself.

The upshot being that the science might be there when it comes to individual compounds such as CBD, but in a general sense I think "cannabis as anti-psychotic" is a very big no-no.
 
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