https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m..._experiences_anymore_.3F

Check the integration link there too.

As others have said, I definitely think the best at this point might be taking a break and dedicating to other things, improve things that need to be improved, etc. Its not like these alkaloids will disappear, you can always go back to it in some months/years if you feel the call again.

Hi all,

I must admit that the title of the post was provocative and that the content was omitting the benefit of pharma in daily life and that the trips have changed over time.

I have responded to your comments but it seems nobody has read that part. I don't take it seriously, we don't have time to carefully read all the thread and thin through a response.

What do worry me is that overall response was STOP it. And this was exactly the motivation of the title and the message.

How do we work with difficulty? Have I posted my first experience which was more than horrible, and had you told me to stop, I would have missed my deeply healing process not only psychologically but also immunologically.

I think that this's attitude is wrong and may scare people to be on the path that I see as very fundamental in inner growth and healing.

I just can't imagine that all of you started with blissful paradise? Is it really so?

And again, I do think we need a section for this kind of difficult process, where the real work takes place, and not to understand dmt as just good trips.

@ Jaime
Yes it is true, I was somewhat aware of it bit pharma made it so much more clear. Yet I don't talk much about Borderline Personality Disorder, I discuss it on BPD forum, since I don't think that this topic is appropriate here, and it may scare people.

Regarding my partner with BPD, the treatments have been magical. This saddens me, since there is "no cure", and yet we found one. It is a horrible condition and yet we have such a success and also very cheap one.

I must say that we meditate regularly and now we do many retreats of 10 day vipassana as well as Zen, which we thing integrates the plant knowledge in deeper level.

And overall, I don't pay much mind what happens on the bed for 4 hours of hyperspace, we are not looking for anything and have no agenda of searching, just observing. This maybe different approach that made controversy, as it seems that our and your approach is different.

Jox

Yeah I get a little irritated when people compare their own experience with someone else, because you can never truly know what another has experienced. How do you know you're experiences are worse than anyone else has gone through? And isn't it all just a matter of perspective? eg. what is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.

just to rationalize your bad trips

a friend of mine which really enjoyed his trips started using dmt daily

after a while he often faced DEMONS cutting up people in front of him, torturing all that kind of shit


i probably would have crapped my pants and never touched dmt again


well said friend is a bit different then me so after battling his anxiety he went again

the demons were really happy to meet him again and told him that they are gonna do to him what he saw last time muahahaha, blood, torture, we are gonna freak you out little human! We are going to devour you!

again i would have crapped my pants


but said friend he got a bit pissed and actually attacked the demons and started eating them

suddenly they disappeared, some kind of recalibration happened and the benevolent trips started again




So yea, your trips are certainly not the worst and if you feel compelled to continue there might be other ways to deal with fear

Don't do anymore pharma, you're on no path except one to your minds downfall

If you've rue - mimo for pharma (I think you are): it seems there is a record of people who are getting darker versions presented as they carried on with this combo. I can attest some change too, in begin very peaceful but later on cutting the fluffy stuff and going straight to the hard work. Since then doses are going down to keep it workable. Maybe that is something to consider for you?

Another way is to change concept, heading for acacia instead of mimo might induce some tempering agent (nmt) into the equation. Or vine instead of rue giving it a more grounded whirl. Or leaf for light. Just some thoughts.

It is not a contest, thank goodness. We consume DMT here, we are like a leaf, fed into a shredder that turns leg-width logs into saw dust. Even the intro when a person signs up, even the Attitude reminds us that this work can be very harrowing. Those words are there for a reason.

Hehe I did start with blissful paradise for a number of smoked and oral DMT and combo trips, but I also got my rear handed to me firmly a few times. One time in particular was super harrowing and I took six months off to do the integration and wound up in a MUCH MUCH better place. So much better able to face the challenge of my husband's cancer that awaited in the near future from that. . . .

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=20905

Integration is so much more important to the work than tripping. Tripping on a schedule? Yikes . . . you don't give yourself a chance to do the deep work that way .. . . or do you? I mean it kind of sounds like you are stuck . . .

Let's just say, that much of the stuff that DMT opened up for me could not be quickly integrated. I could get away for awhile without integrating material, but it was just a matter of time. Play or work with fire and one tends to get burnt once in awhile.

What would happen if you took six months off? I mean the pharmahuasca ingredients are not going anywhere and you are not dying of a terminal illness, right? (I hope not)

It sounds like you are dealing with some heavy material. Or at least trying to. Then repeating, . . . . every two weeks.

Perhaps it is time to take some real time to try to deal with the material, to do the work, to figure out what this means for you and why and what to do with it, etc.

I certainly hope you find some answers soon.

I think people are just worried about you and your use/experiances, they are just saying take it easy there is no need to rush.
Finally the more difficult experiences can be healing after integration,or they can be just a terrible experience leading to more anxiety and in more extreme cases to ptsd.

Probably most people tell you to stop because it sounds like you are complaining about how dark and scary your trips are. Later you say that you have gotten a lot of healing out of them, but obviously you didn't really put that in the initial post, did you? It's hard for us to respond in a helpful way if you do not express yourself well.

In my personal experience the most rewarding trips have usually also been the most difficult ones. When I am really in the need for some internal work I seek out the dark spots in my mind in order to work through what is there. This can be harrowing, scary, ugly etc. Sometimes during the trip there is some kind of resolution and I come out restored to some degree, sometimes that's not the case. And then the integration begins. When there is work to do in the mind or soul, for me at least it would be unusual to look for an easy and 'fun' experience, because I know I have to go face the problems in order to resolve them. Face them all by myself.

I think a lot of peole feel that there is a lot to learn from difficult experiences; I wouldn't say that we shy away from that kind of thing. We've all had them and we're still here. Sometimes it's worth delving deeper, even if it hurts or scares us a lot. Your approach - "stepping into your hell and purifying it" - is not foreign to me, though I like to call it shadow-integration according to C. G. Jung's terminology. And I think others have analogous approaches. However, we cannot agree with you or give you meaningful responses, if you don't elaborate on what it is you are actually doing and achieving here.

I don't think your first post sounds confrontational, it sounds like you are simply complaining about something you in a later post defend. It sounded like a cry for help because you were having repetetive experiences.

If you enjoy harrowing experiences, confronting your inner demons, and are positively moving forward in your life with the help of these experiences, no one will tell you to change your ways. Are you purifying your hell and are you facing different demons every time, thus getting closer and closer to being purified? Or are you repeating the same experience over and over?

If you are looking for help to change the nature of your experiences, however, then perhaps you should take another look at the advice given here. Not that we have the answer for all your problems - it's obviously something you have to find out for yourself.
Taking a break can do wonders if you work through the revealed problems while on the break. Changing the substance or ROA, or changing the manner in which you take it, could also lead to resolving the problems, rather than reliving them again and again - if that's the case here. But you have to remember somethign here - not everything is in your mind alone - not all problems can be solved on that level. Some problems require actual action, and this is sometimes even harder to make happen than integrating or purifying something internal. Sometimes you have to change something real - a habit, a job, a location - in order to lift the shadows from your life. This is something no psychedelic can do for you.

This thread brings up some questions I've had since coming to the nexus that I've never asked. I figure bows the time. When people speak of spiritual experiences or using psychedelics to work through problems etc I have to admit I don't really understand what this means as I have never found this in them.

I used LSD and shrooms recreationally for years and then took a ten year hiatus only to start using them again once I learned how they help people in these ways. What I don't get though is when people.speak of difficult trips in regards to having to deal with emotional issued etc.

The only time I've ever had difficult trips,and I've had a lot of them, it wasn't due to dealing with emotions or anything of that matter. The trip always took on a tone of things messing with my head as if there was some.presence trying to make me go insane or a state of mind where I thought I went to far and would never return to normal everday reality.

Now I found the nexus and have been trying to use DMT to have s spiritual experience and it has changed my outlook on things so far. But still when I have difficult trips with DMT they always center around a feeling of not wanting to feel stuck in that state forever and something purposely trying to make Me go insane.

Can anyone help me interpret what is going on here. My intention has always been to learn etc. Yet posts like this still leave me wondering exactly what Is being discussed. To be honest when I read this type.of stuff I think , I wish I could just deal with some lingering issues on a difficult trip, as that never happens, I feel a evil insane presence that wants me to go insane, or the feeling to having broke my brain. I don't get the rest of this talk.

I def feel ya as far as your interpretation of bad trips you have had. They come in all shapes and sizes, can involve you completely or allow you to just observe, can be brought on by previous issues that you have, can have nothing to do with you at all and be completely circumstantial.

The tricky thing with trips, good and bad, is some don't contain an obvious message and require a little work on your part to decipher. IMO experiences with any psychedelic where you have strong fears of not returning to your body CAN be a sign of your strong attachments to life and how you view things should be or ARE.

Look at your trips and see if you can find parts that resonate with you. Dont look into it too deep or you will find yourself creating a message rather than figuring out the message. Although if its positive what does it really matter... Since it all comes from you anyways.

@ Enoon, ver insightful comment, especially the last paragraph. But this thread and my complains lies actually within the attitudes and politics dmt-nexus. As you can see in wakeup's post, he feels confused about the therapeutic aspects of the experiences.

You say:


But where do you see this attitude expressed in the comments of 4 moderators who posted and all senior members.

In one personal message one member told me that (s)he feels that the official attitude of dmt-nexus is not to have negative reports because of the fear of bad rep that it may get, so when insiders see it, they immediately jump to de-validate it.

I came to a conclusion that majority of members actually smoke DMT, as you can see in Globals response. So I recon that this path is intrinsically different from the oral route, in many ways. Not all methods of ingestion are the same, nor all plants, nor all quantities. I do not see discussions in this direction here, nor anywhere else for that matter.

I have been on Nexus for long time, mainly focused on extractions for pharma, and I remember your help and grateful for it.

But I never read reports much, however, when I did, I saw only one type: mostly in some or another form of religious or spiritual nature, and all moderators and old members cheering them. And especially the "quality section", as I mentioned in the first post, I think my work qualifies as quality, or does it? I was like... this quality approach has nothing to do with myself and my husbands approach. So I posted this thread to "test" the attitude, and to my great disappointment I concluded that nobody works in my way, and I felt deeply alienated.

On the other side I see no members who do meditation retreats, nor even know what they are. I don't see either experience with psychoanalysis, or related therapies. I wonder if it even possible to really grow without some of other tools for self introspection.

It is difficult for this forum to build up a attitude of therapeutic value of psychedelics if there is no any therapeutic experience, and this is exactly what me and my husband are working on, he has Borderline Personality Disorder.

I really felt alienated from the forum. I wanted to write more full report on how the experience has changed over years, but if there is no interest, why would I spend time to write something nobody has any interest in reading it.

@anarchy
I agree what you say, and this is exactly what I am talking about.

@ wake up

I think LSD, or mushrooms in low doses have transformative effects, Ibogaine full flood, pharma, high doses of mushrooms do, and others I don't have much experience with as mescaline. But again we don't discus this since here.

This seems like a lot to me.
Personally I use psychedelics 1-3 times a year.



The problem with having a "difficult trip" section is that people might go in and read a bunch of negative
experiences that influence their own experiences.
If you "search" for difficult experiences you will find them.
There is a Health & Safety tab in the top of the page and as far as I know, new members are
encouraged to read trough that page when they sign up, no?

Maybe a "difficult trip" section is good but personally I think it's better to equip people with the tools to
handle bad trips when they arrive instead of possibly fuelling the fire.



It's not provocative and seems more like a cry for help



I do think people have read your posts, hence the responses.
Your the one who "don't take it seriously" and "don't have time to carefully read all the thread".(which is so far 2 pages long)



I think it's an appropriate response to someone who seems to be hurting themselves



I encourage you to go trough the "health and safety" section at the top of the page.



If you are better that's very good but it doesn't really come out in your posts.
What I see from the posts is a person who has for one and a half year taken psychedelics and had a horrible time
every time.



What you see as the right way is probably not the only way to "inner growth and healing".
A behaviour that saves one person can be outright damaging for another so when a person is seemingly
going down a destructive path it is a very good attitude to encourage them to seek other roads to
follow...at least for a while.



I don't use DMT but have used a lot of psychedelics.
The only one time I had a difficult experience was due to not respecting the strength of these drugs and
using outside my comfort zone (young and foolish). Other then that they have all been blissful so
when you see a person seemingly going trough hell every time they trip it's
only natural to me to encourage them to stop for awhile and reflect.



There is a "health and advice for healing" section where you can go if you feel troubled.



Isn't this comment a bit contradicting yourself?



You seem to be angry that people don't give you the answer you want to and completely ignore what people are
advising you to do. People Who are very experienced with psychedelics.
There's a difference in learning from a difficult experience and always having horrifying experiences.



This is a strawman argument that do not reflect the attitude of the Nexus I know.
I'm a member and don't have any problem with people posting difficult experiences and I have
never seen people being discouraged to post their difficult reports.
There probably exists reports where people try to de-value negative experiences but personally I
don't see it reflect the general attitude of the forum.
If this behaviour should go unnoticed and you feel badly treated you can contact the moderators.



To me it doesn't seem like the right response in your case. As have been mentioned many times on this forum, Psychedelics doesn't work well for everybody.
Maybe a different approach works tough and if you are going to continue
using these drugs may be a different approach could work. If it doesn't I strongly encourage you to take
a break.



Maybe testing yourself and your own attitude would be a better approach?
It seems like the alienation comes from your self not taking in what other people have to say.



People take psychedelics for different reasons. Not everybody on the Nexus is here to heal illness or
search for enlightenment etc. I also don't think it's true that there's no one one this forum
that do meditation retreats etc. Maybe create a thread in the healing section and ask around?

You seem to make the assumption that people on this forum don't know how introspect?
Those assumptions are delusional as you don't really know the thousands of people on this forum.



I can't really say that I agree with your view of this forum as I find it to focus a lot on safety, respect and how to integrate these experiences into our lives.
I hope that it sorts out for you and your husband and don't be afraid to write about your negative experiences as well
as your good ones as I don't understand your attitude that "nobody has any interest in reading it".


Also, If you have suggestion like the "Difficult trip" report section you should bring it up
in the Suggestions thread:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me....aspx?g=topics&f=110

For an example of a trip where I worked through emotional stuff, take a look at my experiment:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=240855#post240855

I explain pretty detailed how it went, so perhaps this can give you an idea as to what it means. I've had similar experiences to this spontaneously, so without the circle and setup and without the specific intentions. Similar internal processes though.

I've also had a spontaneous very difficult trip (https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=237626#post237626) from which I was able to learn a lot.

The sensation of being stuck forever on something is not something I have often. In fact I think I've only had it perhaps the first three times or so that I tripped at all, and in those cases my experiences were so nice I actually hoped it would never end. Either way, to me every negative experience is revealing, it reveals something about my internal workings, some kind of hang-up, some kind of blockage or thought pattern that could be improved. At least that's how I go about these things. During the integration or sometimes even during the trip I can start with the improvements and thus grow from it.

Our attitude is all about responsibly treating these substances and growing from our experiences. If you post something like:

"my experiences are horrible, I go through hell every time, but keep doing it - just because"

then it doesn't sound like a responsible act.

If however you say something like:

"My experiences are terrifying and confront me with the darkness within me, which upon reflection I am able to transform and integrate thus liberating myself step by step from the weight of the darkness, so I keep pushing myself to trip again, twice a month"

NO ONE would tell you stop.

You see... it's all in how you explain yourself...

I feel like the OP was bait to elicit a calculated response that could then be disputed... for what reason I am unclear.

Am I mistaken in feeling this way?

I think I feel the same way.

Jox,

I wouldn't worry so much about WHAT peoples responses are. It would benefit all of us more if those that received advice took the advice for what it is. Opinion. You don't have to follow it and you absolutely do not need to defend yourself against it. I think more often than not people forget about this and feel that they need to argue against advice which IMO gets us nowhere. Your post was slightly confusing and did not express all of your feelings about the topic.

I say if you feel that your doing things correctly, and that your use is scary but has allowed you to learn from them, then continue on your path. That is my advice and you are allowed to do with it as you please.

@ anrchy
Thansk a lot for this advice. Like I said I've had quite a few difficult trips but now that I'm using these substances with different I tent then I used to its hard for me to try and understand what I'm supposed to be getting out of it instead of laughter and eye candy.

I see its potential but when things get difficult its hard to wrap my mind around more then anything then a this seems like a temporary state of insanity type of vibe.

Just read some old reports from.enoon and I'm going to give this a shot on my first changa session. I plan on taking sublingual harmalas and smoking changa to increase the duration and hopefully ground me a little to where I can work on some healing in that state.

Will report back when I'm back to reality.