I have to second this. While the OP didn't really state his reasoning for choosing to engage in empirical research with his specified compounds .. I gather it might of been because of legal problems with their illegal analogues—which is a horrible reason to be interested in RCs (mentioning not being able to get LSD in his country).

There's nothing wrong to me for an individual to decide to experiment with analogues of mescaline and tryptamine-containing plants. For me it's a quest to explore new possibilities that could perhaps circumvent the need to harvest endangered plant species. Especially when straight synthesis is expensive ie: Mescaline. With tryptamines the nature of my research is based on the effects of fresh vs. dried psilocybe mushrooms which I find to be incredibly different. I'm curious to explore other differences.

But it's important to realize that this very important personal choice should be practiced with the utmost respect for the alien territory which you are entering. The only reliable anecdotal evidence that MODERATE consumption of "Research" Chemicals is relatively un-harmful is Alexander Shulgin. I'll be happy to live to 77! Let alone my 80s.

That said he's careful with his dosage—he's just as happy to have a sub-threshold trip so he can truly evaluate the effects of a known quantity of material—instead of adding numerous boosters and essentially loosing the information on prior doses.

You might of tried the substance enough before to know this is a safe dose for you, but it worried me when you said "I had to finish the compound, because I did not like it very much." That is an un-healthy attitude. It's just reckless to bang back powders because you want to get rid of them.

Just be careful man

All the best,

-you have a good point...I have been super-freakin-scared with ultra panic and ugly visuals on mushrooms...
But I would have to say that 3 or four hits of 90's Grateful Dead scene LSD
in "bad times" created for me visuals that would put ANY horror movie to shame.

35mg of 2ci also can provide some pretty horrific visuals if the trip goes off in the wrong direction....
And of course so can DMT and Ayahuasca and Mescaline...but there is just something about
the LSD type horror that seems to surpass all other horrors...


On A non scientific Scary Scale of 1-10 based on realistic "very dark" visuals...such as Walls Bleeding, whispering evil voices, Demonic grimaced faces, Skull patterns, hairy skull patterns both with and without teeth, ravenous monsters,hairy ravenous monsters, red eyed beast creatures,demonic robots with bloody electric chainsaw shark teeth, best friends becoming possessed etc I would rate the substances I have tried accordingly..

LSD- rates 10
2CI- rates 9
Mescaline- rates 7
San Pedro-rates 8
Mushrooms- rates 7 and a half
DMT smoked- rates 4
DMT injected(I.V)Rates a big fat ZERO
Ayahuasca- Rates 5
Datura- Rates 10
Salvia rates a score of +100,000,000,000,0001
good thing it only lasts for around 5 minutes.

Shulgin Scale stand aside!
Just kidding-

You forgot a few dozen zeros on Salvia.

She's a terrible witch with savage tendencies and claws as long as arrows fly.

Salvia is the suicide drug, I swear! I've never tried it, and I think I won't ever come near to it after all the horrifying stories I've heard. A friend of mine had a trip where everything was shaped like a book - the whole world was a huge book, and all his friends looked like walking books, and he was a book too, and every time someone would open his pages, he would tear his intestines apart. No, no, thanks, but no thanks...

I feel you're spreading fear based speculations that were built upon hearing stories. Why indulge in this ? Aren't mainstream media and government enough ?

Dosage, set, setting.

I agree these are just some stories and relatively rare(horrible trips), but dose, set and setting always doesn't mean avoiding horrible experiences, even when they can help.

I don't mean to spread any negative propaganda, I'm a keen supporter of psychedelics (to a dangerous degree sometimes ) but like 90% of the salvia stories I've heard are way too scary. Statistics. I'm not touching this stuff.

Oh, sorry, now I get what you mean - no, I don't believe psychedelics are causing suicides, this is stupid. By "suicide" I meant that salvia psychonauts are psycho kamikazes.

Same here, I don't like ever spreading negativity about psychedelics. But I always tell people to be very careful with salvia.

And I steer clear from it myself, for the time.

Salvia is so misunderstood sometimes. I agree it can be a ROUGH (warning: gross understatement) ride if you don't pay very very careful attention to set/setting. I find shes very sensitive to this..But overall i think its one of the most bizarre and mind blowing experiences there is, with the weirdness factor being on par with DMT. Its just so utterly and convincingly other-dimensional.

I find sensory deprivation type conditions inside, or at night outside, works best for me. IME the big thing is that it takes some serious surrendering and an enduring ability to let go into it in order to move past the uncomfortable aspects of the experience

I don't regret my Salvia experiences, but that doesn't mean they weren't composed of pure terror.

The world around me turned into one big cubist painting that was shuffling, reassembling, and spinning at the will of some sadistic witch with a malicious shriek.

It was like I had suddenly been shrunk down to hang out with all matter—subatomic particles composed of digital blocks. I was floating through space with these particles wizzing all around my body, and in fact my body was also made of these particles.

Dead space was composed of particles. There was no space un-occupied by matter.

Whenever I asked myself any questions about time, space, or place a terrible voice would come crashing through my skull. Speaking no words, but sending me vibes.

I've also seen a friend try and eat an iPod because he thought he was a gingerbread man rampaging through a city causing destruction to the little ants below.

Another mate told me he felt like he was sitting on top of a mailbox in the middle of the Sahara desert for 10 years. Another had God's wife tell him to stop stealing her "man."

The trips aren't meaningless, and I was definitely careful with me set, setting, and dose. But I've never had a smooth transition into Salvia-Land.

It always comes with neck tension, and a feeling of CONTROL by this forceful "Witch" entity. DMT feels like an ally. Salvia and adversary.

I agree with autumnsphere: "salvia psychonauts are psycho kamikazes"

This material could easily make sane people insane. It was a trial for my psyche doubtless.

I can imagine some californian kids(It's legal there, right?) have experienced something similar when just going after some "psychedelic fun".

A lot of people have no idea what's coming! It's legal here in Bulgaria. Most of my friends had no idea that they're in for a hell of a... trip.

Yeah tele, I'm sure there has. I'm Canadian and don't know too much about California, but the whole legal thing definitely misleads people to think it's just some casual smokeable. Although my local smoke shops are really careful selling it to people—to the point of ego tripping over people and making what they believe to be pretty educated judgments on one's ability to *handle* the substance. Basically if you're buy a lot of bongs from them (consequently likely making you a huge consumer of marijuana) then you're "seasoned" in their books.

Psychedelics have a way of whipping you hard if you're only consuming them for euphoria. Not really their primary purpose.

But Salvia definitely more so than any other substance I've smoked, eaten or drank as tea, tincture, or solution.

Yet IME I still value it for being one of the few substances to induce entity contact (the others being Mescaline, DMT, and LSD). Albeit a terrifyingly aggressive and malevolent entity. Mescaline and DMT had a benevolent vibe. LSD had a horror-vibe, but it felt neutral in it's malevolence. It wasn't taking pleasure in it. The universe was just so at that space and time.

Salvia was a cackle-ing demon.

For those who haven’t already read it, take a look at All About Salvia Dosing

Milligram for milligram, salvia is about 30 to 50 times as potent as DMT, yet there are very few casual users of salvia who measure their doses. Take 10-50 times a normal breakthrough dose of just about anything, and my guess is that it’ll be horrific.

I’ve never had a horrific salvia experience, and never approach it with the same “apprehension” that often greets me when preparing to take DMT. Salvia experiences are very strange, and after years of use, I still don’t know what to make of them, but they’re never frightening or traumatic.

I’ve cultivated a good relationship with salvia (literally and figuratively), and I think this is one reason I’ve never had a bad experience with it.

This might get a bit off-topic with the salvia discussion but autumnsphere I have to comment on the salvia experience of your friend:



This is very interesting to me because once I shared Salvia with a friend. At that time salvia was not well known as a "legal high" and it was 10x extract I made myself from a plant I grew. The literature available at that time (e.g. Siebert) seemed to praise it as benign and safe. I had no +++ experience with it myself otherwise I wouldve stopped him from smoking a huge hit of this extract.

After smoking it, he suddenly started grasping me and shouting at me in italian (couldnt understand) and freaked out really badly. Afterwards he told me everything became a book. His whole existence was on one page of the book, and something was turning the page. He knew if this would happen he would be wiped out completely.

This seems to be a common theme, the world becoming somehow 2-dimensional and layered. Usually combined with a horrible visceral fear that everything will be ripped apart.

Salvia is so unforgiving and strong. It's horrible it became a youtube fad to make teenage girls freak out on x1000 extract and find it somehow comical.

Wow!
Kinda reminds me of "The Library of Babel".