This kind of tripping takes some serious mental strength.

I wonder what were you fears that made you visit the doc?

I understand that even one thought in such state about something tough, such as too high blood pressure can make one freak out and do things one wouldn't normally do, such as visiting the doc.

It's interesting how birthday trips are very deep judging by my own experience and some other members on the nexus.

Jamie, when you talk about being glad not aborting the trip, how is it possible to abort the trip(I haven't read about it before)?

I got that transparent thing as well. I could see my hands and arms when I walked around every time I got sick but I could see through them as if I was a ghost. Sometimes they would trail as well and it would be like I had 6 arms and I could hear the sound of what a trail looks like..just a cascade of different buzzing tones..this was one of the weirdest things IO have ever encountered. I am very very familiar with the carrier wave. I have never before heard it in the movement of my hands through the air or in the way the harmala trailing effect sounds..

When I would roll around in bed..even sooo very slightly this buzzing would be like an entire orchestra of molecular movement. I went outside and the buzzing was roaring out of the sky and from the plants. It felt eternal..not in a bad way..it was magnificient but too much for the human body to deal with consciously.

I am not like afraid of ayahuasca now or anything. I am more in awe of the medicine now than ever. I will just cut the vine dose in half next time take a bit less admix to better judge this batch and meditate on this for a few days.

I'd like to know that also , would that be something like Xanax you are talking about ?

the guy tried to give me clonazepam which is an anti-psychotic and I think anti-anxiety drug that can apparently bring you down. I was not at all psychotic though in the slightest and I was sane enough to realize at that point that I would feel great if I just let the ayahuasca run it's course. The doctor did not really get that though and gave me an odd look then tried to tell me all these horror stores about people going schizo from psychedelics or something. I dunno I did not need clonazepam. I went because was worried about my blood pressure because every time I tried to stand up for about an hour I would stumble in a circle and fall down and the room would just smear into a ginat trail. I thought maybe I took so much harmala that my blood pressure was real low but I think my sense of time and judgement was just so off.

I told the guy really I just needed him to take my blood pressure and he did and then insisted on checking my other vitals which were all normal. He insisted that I take the prescription for the clonazepam incase I needed it at night to sleep or something but by the time I left his office I was laughing and enjoying it anyway.

In hindisght it would be better to just get the means to check my own blood pressure at home.

clonazepam is a benzodiazepine, just as Xanax is; they would do roughly the same thing. At the bottom line, I don't think a doctor would have any scientifically established method to "end" a DMT experience. If one were experiencing serotonin-syndrome, there are treatments he would use--and he would give a benzodiazepine to someone having a seizure or extreme anxiety...but I'm not sure that would be guaranteed to help. The likely response of an emergency room doctor to a report of a psychological reaction to a street drug is to treat any bad physiological responses (high BP, runaway fever, etc.), and otherwise allow psychological signs to subside with time.

You can buy BP monitors quite cheaply at the drug store or online. There are ones that wrap around your wrist, and (I think) even ones that just go on your finger. They are a useful and cheap medical device to have around the house.

I wonder why the person who was driving you to the clinic didn't talk you out of going there



Sounds like tough tripping, I wonder what made you think it's BP related since in general there shouldn't be dangerous BP increase with ayahuasca.

harmalas lower blood pressure, they do not raise it. DMT can raise blood pressure but I felt like I had soo much harmalas that they would at least balance that out. The problems people seem to associat with high blood pressure and harmalas are when something like cacao is ingested..or if someone is prone to tyramine reactions I guess.

I felt faint the whole time..every time I stood up and fell back down it felt like I was going to black out..which is a sign of low blood pressure. Could also be a sign that I am just tripping my ass off though I guess.

The person who drove me there has never taken a psychedelic in her life so had no reason to talk me out of it. I dont really think it is that big of a deal. I really wanted to make sure my blood pressure was okay. The sad part is how the doctor reacted and almost took advantage of me in that state I feel trying to get information about how I order this stuff and telling me I need to make a list of how all my friends feel about me doing this. I sort of just got weird and told him I could not give a frak what they think really..I left real quick after that.

He could have just been nice to me and took my blood pressure. Could have been alot worse though. At least health care pays for this sort of thing here.

Thanks for sharing the experience Jamie, and I'm glad it all worked out.
I don't like to say anything to doctors about any use of entheogens.
MD's are tapped into computer records and insurance companies or leo's can get that information you supply your md.
Doctor patient confidentiality is apparently not something that happens anymore.
But I know how the feeling of panic can be when the trip gets way harder than expected!

Wow- freaky experience; not what you need on your birthday!! (Happy Birthday, by the way! ).

As SWIWfriend has mentioned, clonazepam and xanax are very similar in their effects.

Theres a few things to consider here; RIMAs can certainly drop the BP and they can also cause cardiac arrythmias.The effects of a psychically demanding trip can cause an elevation in both pulse rate and BP.To complicate matters a little more, benzodiazepines can cause a drop in ones BP.

The physiological response to hypotension in an otherwise well person would be a compensatory elevation of ones pulse rate.So counting the pulse AND noting if its regular in rhythm is a fair indicator of ones BP insofar as excluding a low BP goes.

Benzos are excellent at easing anxiety, so the trip whilst not 'aborted' is certainly made easier from the psychological perspective.A very handy class of drug to have available, IMO.

I reckon that doctors, and in particular psychiatrists, would probably benefit from undertaking a true psychedelic experience for the positive effects it could have on their empathy for the psychologically disturbed patient.


Jamies experience also highlights the potential hazards of using the plants whole compared to using the results of extraction

I made a relevant post about ur trip but it got lost in my mozilla firebird client (which does not allow me to edit or post).

So im just gonna say i'll be more careful with ayahuasca because i brew large doses for myself but it never seems to work. I tend to get very anxious and something like what you experienced could drive me nuts very easily.

Yikes!

The only time I ever experienced anything like this was while on 4 grams of mushrooms with some harmala tea, during the peak I inhaled a sliver of dead grass, sending the trip into this whole identifying-with-Jesus-of-Nazareth's-crucifixion thing!! very intense! Also on my largest dose of pharma I ALMOST asked my mother-in-law for some kind of benzodiazapine to "abort" the trip... I'm very glad I didn't!

It may be a good idea for you to get a BP moniter (not terribly expensive), as well as a small emergency cache of MAOI-friendly sedative...

I'm sorry that this happened to you, friend!

I am not to worried about my blood pressure for the future..the doctor said it was fine..I was just soo out of it and the inability to walk without my world spinning in circles and blending together into a smear of color was the part that really got to me I think. I just could not tell if it was low blood pressure making me faint or just wayyy to much harmalas..it would be good to be able to monitor bp at home anyway though.

I have drunk 2 times sinse then, just medium doses and both times alot of integration was taking place, and still is. I feel like alot of information was sort of downloaded into me that day and then remained unprocessed..and like, I cant extract and process those zip files fully while in daily consciousness..seems like a series of light or medium doses of ayahuasca are required as follow up to integrate all of that.

I have also been having really insane bouts of nausea coinciding the the CME's comming from the sun this week, that force me to lay down for periods of time and then when I do I get very sedated and the same sort of extraction and decompression of these zip files from the experience takes place..this really started to hit me hard yesterday evening..I dont know what to make of all this but Im just gunna chill and ride it out for a few days and not drink again until the solar flares chill out a bit next week.

The way you describe your experience reminds me VERY much of my iboga experiences. The chaos, the buzzing, the feeling of fainting-slipping away, extreme tracers, the fact that you was taken further from consensus reality than you´ve ever been before, the intensity and also the experience of endlessly going through cycles...I can also relate to the feelings of intimidation and it being just too much.

In one sense, these type of experiences can be terrifying, but at the same time i would not be surprised if, within a few weeks or months time, you would be tempted to go back to this place.

There are definately simmilarity´s between iboga and harmala´s and as you know, i´ve speculated before about the possibility of having iboga flood-like experiences with large amounts of harmala´s. I think you´ve had such an experience.

I think that, if you would decide to have such an experience again, you will be able to handle it better and also that you will be able to learn more from it and even to enjoy it.

I remember that the first time took a visionary dose of iboga, i was completely intimidated by it, the moment it started to work. Especially that powerfull buzzing and that feeling of fainting and slipping away while at the same time your mind is being flooded with chaos beyond anything you´ve experienced before....i had something like:'oh oh, i didn´t expect it to be THIS powerfull, what the hell is gonna happen to me?'.

I´m pretty sure that you now have a pretty good indication of what ibogaine is like.
And while experiences of this kind can be almost repulsive in their unrefined, pure rawness, at the same time they go deeper to the core of what is 'you' than anything else. They take you back to an elementary, basic level of existence, way beyond what something as beautifull, elegant and refined as DMT can do.

And that is why you may want to go back there, once this experience has been fully integrated and processed.

Infinite-I once said something about iboga along the lines of:'this was the most terrible experience of my life, but i surely would do it again, anytime'.

Be well.

I actaully am tempted to go back to that place again. I think about it alot. I still need to work with my regular ayahuasca doses for a bit though to properly process everything..then I will shoot for that sort of experience again.

You are right about it being beyond what something like DMT can do..I would just smoke DMT or changa to get bck there but this was in whole other league beyond that..even with a harmala predose changa has never approached that..It is something about the very large dose or oral harmalas that lays you out flat on you back with a touch of admixture that does it..at that dose of harmalas a person likely only needs about 1/3 to 1/4 their typical dose of admixture..

Compared to a brew that uses just enough harmalas for inhibition and then alot of DMT, this is just something else. Like real jungle ayahuasca I would imagine..all the power is in the vine..

I have been working with another brew of white vine, some rue, mimosa and chaliponga the last week to help integrate this experience..I still have yet to drink that caapi brew again, but we are going to drink some of it in a few days again..not as much though..

I also have 3 kilos of black vine on the way so I am hoping that vine is very very potent as well..

Also..the after effects of such strong harmala brews are more pronounced..like it is hard to explain..it is beyond the typical afterglow..for me it really is like a feeling of having been activated and it still has not fully faded..though I have drunk 2 times since then to integrate and been dosing melatonin.

Iboga in the summer so that will be interesting..Im going to start working a bit with tabernaemontana sananho as well along with ayahuasca sometime soon so that will be interesting as well..

The best advice i can give, when you decide to go back there is: Prepare well, drink lot´s of water the days before so that you won´t suffer from dehydration, don´t try to eat anything during and immediately after the experience, don´t try to drink any sort of juice either but just stick to water...juice will be ejected before your body has had the time to absorb anything and will therefore only lead to further dehydration.
Eating banana´s the days before may help, because when you vomit you´re depleating your body from potassium and banana´s are rich in potassium.

So, with iboga do the visuals vibrate really fast? This is really hard to describe, but when the tea was peaking I would close my eyes and see insane DMT geometry, but it would be like my visual field was split into 2 sides that were mirror images..and each side would vibrate really fast back and forth-something I have never experienced with DMT, only with harmalas and never to this degree..it was for sure the harmalas that do this..

The 2 images would vibrate this way until they met in the center and then locked and then the carrier wave would almost jump up an octave at the exact time that the 2 images locked together and they would then begin to spiral as one image..as this image would spiral it would also become more 3d..or beyond 3d even and then open up to a full on vortex or wromhole and my spirit or whatever would leave my body and fly down this wormhole and then all sorts of things I cant explain would take place..

If I opened my eyes or sat up or had to puke etc, this would all stop and go back to the start..with 2 images vibrating at an insane pace to the carrier wve frequency..then increasing until locking..the tone rising and taking over everything as the image spirals into another vortex..

I think this is related to how harmalas mess up your sense of balance and equilibrium so much..that vibration force was like...everything was doing it..the back and forth motion of each object seemed to be like 6 inches to a foot at times with eyes open..

I never had completely symmetrical visions as far as i can remember. But i have seen things vibrating or spinning realy fast. Most of the visions where a bit chaotic in a jackson pollock sort of way, but there definately where wormhole/vortex-like visuals.
Iboga doesn´t give one singtle sort of vision..sometimes it´s incredibly vivid and real and sometimes it´s more DMT-like and there are daydreaming sort-of moments as well. Sometimes it´s sharp and other moments it´s very hazy. There are also visions that seem to be made out of pure darkness.

One of the weirdest experiences i ever had with it was, being in a giant beehive with all these bees that seemed to be made of pure vibrating energy feeding me like i was a larve. I could feel their energy.

At the end of the experience, you get to see tracers that are flashing very brightly and that completely take-over your visual field and almost completely liquify everything in your field of vision. But from the very moment it realy starts working, your vision is extremely distorted and things do vibrate and become hazy.

Vovin has attached an indiana jones clip in the 'carrier wave project' thread, and to me the sound he mentions is one of the closest things i´ve ever heard, to what that iboga-buzzing sounds like.

that sounds intense. reminds me of high doses of 4-acodmt. the whispering of existence being pushed into your mind.

I think btw, that your jungle-brew may be much safer than iboga. Iboga feels at least a bit toxic to me, unlike caapi. Maybe a jungle-brew doesn´t have effects that last as long as iboga, because of it´s metabolite noribogaine, but i think one could compensate this because the amount of journey´s one could safely make with this jungle-brew is probably higher: i think you could probably take such an extremely powerfull brew, a few times a year while iboga is more apropriate to take e few times in a life. As such, it could be more healing than iboga because you can take it more often.