So, swim should have some 4-aco-dmt, coming in the mail any day now .

I have not read one bad report with this molecule. Swim is planning on micro dosing 1mg on the tongue, just for safety precautions.....with the recent incident regarding bromo-dragonfly, i'm gonna do a little test.

Then as a starter trip dose, i will still stay on the conservative side with about 8 - 10mg.

I've heard a lot of reports saying that 20-25mg is similar to 3.5 g of psilocybin ( depending on the potency of the mushrooms ofcourse).

At lower doses, it's suppose to feel like psilocybin, but slighly more visual, with no nausea, or body load.

At higher doses, i've read that it's still like psilocybin, but with way more visuals that compare to DMT.

I was just wondering if any of you guys have experience with this compound, and have any advice or feedback.

The one thing, i've been doing searches on, with no luck.....is storage.

It's a fumerate, and i have heard it's quite stable,but on the other hand i've heard that it can degrade rather quickly (i'm not sure if those reports were with fumerate or freebase).

Swim is just going to put it in an amber vial, in the freezer......hopefully it's pretty stable.

Anyway, i'd love to hear any feedback or advice from anyone that does have experience with 4-aco

Wow..I figured it was scheduled by now under some analogue act or something..glad to hear it's still available..something I would love to try sometime soon.

Can't wait to hear some reports!

It's not scheduled yet.....which is why swim decided to load up on some.

4-ACO-DMT could easily be considered an analogue of Psilocin, so be careful! It is not a true analogue, but these laws have been bent before... I think it is enough that it is proven beyond doubt that it is intended for human consumption.

My understanding was that 4-ACO-DMT is a prodrug for Psilocin? That is, 4-ACO-DMT has no effect (can't cross the blood-brain-barrier) before it is metabolized to Psilocin. Therefore, the effects should be extremely close to pure Psilocin, perhaps with a Psilocybin twist (stronger body high).

True.....swim was as careful as he could be, as far as $ transaction. The only 4-aco-dmt "bust" (that i am aware of) was is california, where two stupid kids were doing a transaction in a parking lot, and some off duty police officer called the police.If i remember correctly they were only charged for possession of MJ and.





That lines up with everything i've read. I've read a bunch of reports that claimed the visuals were stronger.....comparable to dmt.

nice...i'm VERY interested to hear how this molecule treats you!! how long is the journey supposed to last? can you inhibit with it? i'm FASCINATED!

L&G!!

4-ACO-DMT will not cross the blood-brain-barrier before it is deacetylated into Psilocin. This is just like Psilocybin, it can not cross the blood-brain-barrier before it is dephosphorylated into Psilocin. Therefore, the only difference in effects from 4-ACO-DMT to Psilocin one can expect, is in the body high, just like Psilocybin.

The reported "DMT like visuals" is likely to be a result of higher dosages, as the visual and mental effects are, as described, only from Psilocin. Psilocin can in fact, in the right dosages, produce intense three dimensional visuals very close to DMT in nature.

I hope everything turns out okay, this is an interesting substance indeed! I wish you all the best luck, and I hope we will see a trip report!

Yes, the main difference between this and mushrooms must be because with this chemical, you can take a large dose at once.
It probably has a faster onset because of this as well.

And you can snort it or take it sublingualy.

How much did you pay for it?

Psilocybin has a large charged phosphate group, which is why it would not cross the BBB (Has anyone looked?). However acetyl groups add lipophilicity and increase BBB penetration. There is no evidence that 4-Acetoxy-DMT is converted to psilocin before it crosses the BBB. In fact the reason for acetylation in drug design is to increase lipophilicity and thus increase penetration across the BBB. It is almost def that a sig portion crosses the BBB before it is metabolized.

Once across it is likely that much will be deacetylated as it will be in other places it distributed to like the Liver, lung.... so some will be converted to psilocin. However 5-acetoxy-DMT (acetylated bufotenine) was found to bind to 5-HT sites on its own with significant affinity. Thus this agent may very well be capable of exerting its own effects as well. It is unlikely its effects are just psilocin....

If taken oraly 1st pass metabolism may occur, although this has not been shown. However if taken parentally there is little doubt that a significant portion of 4-acetoxy-DMT will cross the BBB.

Even if the psilocin was the only active metabolite different effects can occur:

The increased lipophilicity means that it should be absorbed quicker and should reach the CNS in higher concentrations. Thus the duration of effects are different. If it does not bind than one has to consider the time need to be metabolized into the active component. Differences in time of distribution can have HUGE impact on the subjective effects of a drug. Cocaine addicts can not differentiate b/w IV Methylphenidate and cocaine. However if taken oral ritalin is not as COCAINE-LIKE. Heroin and morphine is also an example. Acetylating a drug can lead to drastic changes in the pharmacology and subjective effects.


DMT and psilocin seem to have very similar visual effects especially at higher doses.

Does anyone know what salts of 4-aco-dmt work well?



Bufo man is the deacetylation enzymatic?

It has been sold as the fumarate.

With psilocybin it is phosphatases. [Horita et al. 1961] Stomach acid can contribute.

With acetyled versions esterases (deactylase) are probably involved I don't think anyone knows for sure. Mode of ingestion would effect this as some may occur in the low pH of the stomach.

If taken orally 1st pass effect may occur it just depends on the drug. (heroin should not be taken orally as most is converted to morphine via the liver). If taken parentaly it cross the BBB and is then deactylated to 6-acetyl-morphine and morphine which are the active metabolites of heroin. So if an acetylated drug is taken parentally it is likely that a significant portion of the acetylated drug will enter the CNS. Otherwise it may or may not depending on the drug.

Hmm interesting.

This happens a lot with fumarate salts. One thing to do is re-dissolve the residue in a small amount of water and let slowly air evaporate (NO HEAT) many times the residue will solidify. Also some will form a solid if acetone is added and the oil scrapped although occasionally it turns back to a residue. If acetone doesn't work try the water method. If pure one of these should work.

Cool thanks for advise.

The aco/ho debate!

Personally I can say that aco is different from ho's (lol). There is a difference, whatever theories have been put out there (Shulgan for one) I believe they are wrong.

4-aco-dmt is quite different from 4-ho-dmt...as 4-aco-dipt is different from 4-ho-dipt, as 4-ho-mipt is different from 4-aco-mipt...and I'm not talking about just dosages, there is a distince difference in how these chems affect a person. This has been verified by countless bioassays by others.

aco's in general seem to be much gentler than their ho counterparts.

4-aco-dmt reminds me a lot more of the after-effects of DMT (that right after you come back to reality, spacy, beautiful oev thing) than mushrooms (or even alcohol extracts of mushrooms).

I apologize that the information I put forward was not entirely correct, but luckily we have more competent people in here that corrected me!

It is great to see that you acknowledge that.

yes...thanks bufoman for all the excellent info.

I will most definately post reports as soon as i have the chance to to experiment with this compound.

Is 4-aco-dmt considered a RC or maybe its in a grey area? I would certainly value information regarding a reliable supplier. Thanks all

OF

If you google search 4-acetoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, with key words like 250mg, or product list, or something to that effect, you will find results, but it might take a little time.

Also....."hipforums", has a list of known RC scammer's which you might want to cross reference before using any vendor. They do update it, and there ia also a legnthy thread on the subject.

4-aco , does fall into the grey area of the analogue law........it is for research only, and not human consumption (obviously).

Hope that helps.