Most people with a basic understanding of biology will know that on of the differences between plant and animal cells is that plant cells have a cellulose cell wall. For those who don't know what this is cellulose is a polysaccharide, that is natural polymer of many beta-glucose monomers which forms one very long chain. Lots of chains line up and have bonds crossing between them, this makes cellulose a relatively strong structure. The enzyme cellulase can be used to hydrolyse (break down) cellulose into its individual beta-glucose monomers, destroying the cell wall and releasing fully the cell contents including spice.

Another feature of plant cells is they are joined by pectin, which is a kind of cementing agent which holds the cells together, especially in the non-woody areas i.e inner root. Using the enzyme pectinase, which is widely available from home brewing shops as "pectic enzyme" because of its use to break down fruits before fermentation, one could reduce MHRB from powdered to completely broken down into individual cells. Many teks insist on the importance of breaking down the MHRB to as small as possible, this method could take the concept even further.

A quick google search shows that cellusase can be purchased from a variety of companies although its rice can vary quite dramatically. First few hits showed cellulase at $37 a gram here http://www.worthington-biochem.com/CEL/cat.html

or £11.50 for 100ml here http://www.ncbe.reading....enzymes/celluclast.html, more than enough for many many extractions although this could prove uneconomical due to its relatively high price.

However the good news is pectinase or pectic enzyme is incredibly cheap often under $2 or £1 a sachet, also it can be bought without causing any suspicion because of its legitimate usage in home-brewing.

Has anyone ever used enzymes before extractions to break down their MHRB or grasses etc?

Just a thought please let me know what you think about it

Thanks

The idea of using enzymes is sound. SWIM had similar thoughts recently which basically involved using malted barley. Malted barley contains (among the amylases that are necessary during mashing) beta-glucanase that can hydrolyse cellulose. He may try using malted barley in an extraction in the future when he has time.

Mind you however that plant cell walls do not only contain cellulose but other stuff as well. In trees, one finds also lignin second cell wall that is more difficult to break down enzymatically. Ligninases can be found in some fungi and bacteria though.

Utilising enzymes as I said is not a bad idea but maybe unnecessary. In A/B some cell walls break during acid boils whereas the majority of alkaloids just diffuse out of the plant cells. In STB the high pH most likely slowly breaks cell walls. either way it would be nice to see someone trying the enzymes vs conventional!

I am glad someone else has also been thinking of this idea as it seemed odd that none of the teks I have yet come across mention enzyme use at all.
As you said Infundibulum, it would be nice to see someone carry out this kind of experiment to see if enzymes could be used as a part of future extraction techniques. And I agree it's always nice to break from convention.

convention trumps all.

i am going to have to close this thread for reasons of heresy.

I guess it is a heresy for molecular biologists to wander where chemists roam?

sometimes

i mean, this is the advanced chemistry forum.
fad science is not tolerated

Ah, I almost missed the chemistry thingy! I promise you that if enzymes and fad methods ever become an official component of extraction teks I'll make sure to create a new subforum to accommodate them!!!!

I would love if we got to the point of having an enzymes and related fad methods subforum

that would be pretty cool
then all the tree-hugging food-safe teks could be moved there

Sorry to upset any purists but I but this thread here as it came under the Category of DMT extraction and it obviously didn't fit in any of the a/b, stb, fumaric acid or dmt allies sub sections.

No, don't worry it's all humour!

oh dont worry delta-9, what happened above is all humour, this is a perfect place IMO for this thread And even if it wasnt, threads can easily be moved around...

Whats nice is that you're wondering about exploring uncharted territory in psychedelic knowledge. There's still so much that we can find out, and at the same time if we look back at just a few years back, people in general and this community in special has already developed, tested, explored and discussed so many new corners of psychedelic chemistry and psychology.

Keep them discussions rolling

Could these enzymes help break down the cacti goop?

yeah, probably some sort of carbohydrase.

freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw is the most cost effective way to lyse the cells, which is the whole point.

It could be really cool to see a comparison of different methods for breaking cell walls and increasing yield from plant material. Perhaps a comparison of letting the plant material sit at super-high pH (say, 13.5 give or take 0.25) for a few days a la Lazyman's Tek, versus freeze-defrost cycles, versus shredding the plant material in a blender, versus enzymes? Or whatever?

Ultrasonic transducers are already used for extraction. They speed up the process very significantly, sometimes making it 10 times faster.

only on a very small scale.
cell disruptors aren't practical nor effective for large volumes

I dont see why not, should be equally effective on any terrestrial plant.

And the question remains: Since some of those enzymes are easily available at wine making shops (pectinase) or can be had online relatively cheap,has anyone put them to test/tried them?

Im afraid that while as an idea it might be great, inertia of "known methods" will be hard to overcome...