Ok.... where to begin with this one !!!

A little bit of background to say that after several attempts with the spice swim was feeling confident and was begining to feel that they could perhaps anticipate the warm loving feeling and encounters that almost all of the dmt experiences had provided. Initially each experience offered an expanding encounter, which on several occassions came accross other beings who were aware of their presence and a mutual loving feeling was present at all times, perhaps this was what lulled them into a false sense of security with the spice, with no indifference to taking it alone or with a sitter..... one day not so long ago all that changed.

An unexperienced user of psychodelics, not paying any attention to the amount of spice piled up upon the bong that day, just eager to go further into it than ever before. Having already taken one hit that day, curiosity was still getting the better and the need for a more profound experience took its toll. They have no idea how much spice was on the bong that day, only that it was way more than ever before. On the initial inhale, which in the past had merely been a melting of the spice, already smoke was filtering through at such an astonishing rate, they knew something different was in store but proceeded with a second inhale, at which point the room was already starting to disappear. Not content with that they were wanting to take more and proceeded with a third and final hit. In the past the process has offered the opportunity to take the hit, sit the bong down and relax into a comfortable position before blasting off for the ultimate enjoyment, but not that day!! They had barely sat the bong down when the onslaught started, the usual friendly psychedelic familiar place that they knew seemed almost fake and was very quickly replaced with something much more terrifyning. Black Dragon type creatures were hurtling towards them and around them in a menacing and demonic fashion, the ultimate manifestation of all that is fear and evil, corrupt, bad and intimidating was encompassing them at such a swooshing astonishing rate, they were presented with the most harrowing experience they could never have imagined. At this point they opened their eyes to see if that would offer any relief, however the room they were in seemed so unreal and like a distant memory they could no longer access. The black dragons kept tormenting them and were followed by wooden wheel type structures with stakes through them, hurtling big stone boulders towards them, there seemed no reprieve from this experience. Gargoile/elf like creatures were scurrying about terrified of the big black creatures, they were like grey type biengs caught up in it all, intuition said they were negative entities but in no comparison to the force which was currently being encountered. All coordinates were lost and total confusion took over, what was happening, is this where they would have to remain, as the experience eased and a bright white light replaced the haunting darkness, they felt that there was no way of return. On days leading upto the experience the person had been pondering the thoughts that if they were a multi-dimensional being then why was their sight so limited to 3D reality, as the feeling of terror eased they had an experience of what it would be like to be seeing many different realities all at once, the result was utter confusion and complete disorientation and the realisation took over that to live on the human plane we are equipt with what we need for each existence.
It took along time for the person to get their bearings back that day, being alone through an experience like that was particularly disturbing and confusing and the person felt that although they may have passed the point of no return, a familiar face to welcome them back may have been helpful!!

This has been a bit of a wake up call for swim and has perhaps shook their confidence a bit as for going it alone lol, they may now prefer to have someone close by when they take their next hit! Just wanted to share the experience to see if any others have had any similar encounters. Also to finish up, the experience has provided an opportunity to face some of the most horrific creatures yet be able to feel unscathed by the experience but have an awareness that its not all bright lights and colours out there to welcome you lol. I sincerely hope that this would never put someone off from trying the spice, as experiences to date have tipped the balance in the predominently favourable enlightening experiences, which I hope to share also. However this encounter has definately been the most thought provoking, which the person is deeply grateful for !

There is always something to learn from each experience. Any time I've had a somewhat scarry experience, its been when I've taken a larger hit than usual. What it has taught me each time is this...

Respect the spice.

Sometimes it does take you like that. More often when pushing the limits of whats tolerable but sometimes on relatively small hits too. I think most people who explore DMT's potential will encounter the demons at some point.

Scared the shit out of you didnt it? Left you shakeing, gasping, drenched in sweat, your heart pounding, your blood roaring in your ears, in fear for your life. I know those ones too. Stuck in some lonley void where none can help. Where you plead with God to let you survive and come back intact. You promise all sorts of things to him, when you fear you may never come back.

Dont be afraid. You do always come back no matter how horrific the visions are at the time.

I liked that you shared that with us

The spice always speaks to the greater conciousness which in turn offers its wisdom to the ego. During the bad visions it is always the ego that fears. I myself fall in to this trap of the ego alot. There is always a lesson to be learned and its good to hear that your friend realized this. Thankyou for sharing the experience

Thank you all very much for your comments, certainly a new found respect for the spice has been acquired, im sure they may now proceed with curious caution rather than testing the water with two feet !!

Yes was undoubtably the most fearful experience ever encountered, and thanks magic clown for your description of what it was like, you are spot on!

Also the comments regarding the ego being frightened, yes I can really take that on board and understand what you mean by that. Many questions have sprung to mind after the experience, one of them being about dmt being a progressive experience, do you think that if you persist with dmt that it is inevitable you will encounter demonic beings eventually? Is this a stage in your awareness that must be experienced before moving forward in dmt land? There are some very familiar places I have encountered that provoke a memorable feeling that feels more real than life experienced through a human body, do other people get this feeling?

I would love to hear from others what their thoughts are about any of the above, thanks xx

Something if this happens again to remember: You are in power, even if something scary comes to get you, you must control it. This is YOUR world, and you can just laugh off anything that tries to bring you down.

I'm glad you're back.

As for your questions of demons:

I think in any mind-altering state, we can see and feel things that make us uncomfortable. I don't think it is something that can be moved forwards from. I believe that in any stage of "enlightenment", we can realize things that we don't like. The trick to all of this is to go into it with the most positive of attitudes with no doubt in your mind. With that power, it is possible to realize great truths.

icaros are a good way to hold on to something of the old world when everything you remembered is a distent memory as you put it.this may work with ayahuasca but elf spice may be just to quick to hold on to anything at all...............has anyone tried journying with the spice while singing icaros or even playing a musical instrament to help keep your intentions of the spice intact insead of drifting in to a sea of fear and a desperation to return home.

There was a thread here a while back about the benefits of icaros with the spice, cant seem to find it. I dont see how its possible, maybe with low doses but Ive seen myself panicking trying to stay here and turning shpongle or hendrix up to keep me here and its just went away along with my mind lol Then id come back and the musics booming ! lol

Hi thanks for the comments, i think perhaps as infinite 1 said that may be useful for lower doses but generally there is little awareness of sounds or location in most experiences to date. Not too familiar with icaros but will look into it, got to be worth a try anyway, willing to try anything that may help

i was thinking more about the person taking the hit singing the icaros,or even beating on a drum.i think the old thread was more about listening to icaros while journeying which i dont think would be possible as the next time you heard them would be on re-entry.i was thinking more along the lines of say playing an instrument,singing,or beating a drum while trying to channel your intentions to the spice before during and after the experience,almoast treating it like an ayahuasca cerimony,the only difference being you as your own shamen as the spice is far to quick and hard for anyone ealse to help guide it in a positive way.if this could be acheived im sure it would go a long way to helping one use the spice experience to ther advantege rather than just going wtf upon re-entry.after all thats why wee do it is it not,watching swirling colours and meeting entities and just sitting in fear going wtf is only the begining,and not what its all about imo we have to learn how best to use this gift to our advantige,and taking a leaf from the shamans book would be a good way to start as they have mega experience with this drug,spirit,teacher,tool,whatever you want to call it..................stroll on satarday,mon the hoops.

ps= infinite on get your ass up to mine for some ruemosahuasca,its going going going quick....lol.

See what your saying lemmy with the whole ceremonial slant to it rather than smoke this shit, this shit gets you fucked. It may help but I mean the speed and intensity can anything really help, but yes its worth a try and intention does go a long way. I just have to grow some balls again with the stuff I think its totally stopped me in my brazen hardeheadedness ways with psychedelics, even though I know dmt is the best thing ever Anyhoo im going to brew some mimosa up just now so there will be plenty to go round

lemmy...... good to see someone with a bit of sense

ps also like the comments bot the dmt aswel lol

(moan the hoops lol)

dont know how successful playing an instrument could be, dont know if you've got something different going on but usually there is no awareness of this body at all let alone being able to co-ordinate playing an instrument or chanting icaros, perhaps you could elaborate a bit more on your proceedings

Tonight I had THE MOST TERRIFYING experience of my life.

I still have very limited experience with the spice. My hyperspace travels were too short. Hoping to bring back more I decided to use MAOI. A while ago I extracted some rue. I was not sure of the quality of he extract so instead of the usually recommended 250 mg I took 370 mg. I had 80 mg of spice loaded into the machine. That was all the spice I had atm, because I've hidden more than a gram somewhere and could not find it. One idea that came to my mind before the takeoff was to ask the spice where is the rest.

The answer was very unexpected. I was SOOO SCARED that I still think I don't need it anymore.

Earlier I dreamed of 80mg spice with rue extract both orally. It was not much and annoying nausea tainted the whole trip. After previous experiences with smoked spice alone I was familiar with the cannonball speed it hits you, but the oral experience lulled me into believing that under MAOI it is not that fast. Actually a few travellers mentioned that as well.

25 min after the rue I revved up the machine. The spice was pretty smooth and I had one big hit from the machine. I
planned to take one or 2 more but I did not even managed to count to 20 before my mind exploded. I believe I've blacked out for some time and then came THE TERROR. No dragons or elves. Nothing I can describe as an entity. Just concentrated nameless, faceless agony. It was like all pains and fears of all people that ever lived were squeezed into those undescribable 1.5 hours. Had I been able to move I would have killed myself there and then.

In 2 hours I was more or less in one piece.

Then I did something I still could not comprehend. I simply could not believe it can be SO SCARY. So, when I was more than halfway back I picked up the machine, took one cautious hit, started seeing nice OEV and thought what the hell, nothing could be scarier than I already saw, so I took another big hit. Then the spice taught me a good lesson - when you start thinking "Been there, done that", just wait. So I believe this time I came very close to what Christians call HELL.

A fast re-entry would have been a blessing, but with no MAO in the system my mind was drenched with DMT for another hour.

Be careful and be safe, my friends.

Peace.

.

Someone I know had a similar experience with just smoked spice. It wasnt the whole trip it was the first part then the second part was someone i know thinking thats why people need to love each other because the amount of pain and horror we can cause each other is really powerful. either way this made him hesitant to go back to high doses so hes working his way up slow again.

Was the high dose of rue part of the reason for a 'rough' ride'..? I have never exceeded 3.5g Rue seed (extracted), and this is strong !

To last > 1.5 hours of tripping, from one vapourized toke - that's quite amazing !... holey moley MAOI action there, Trickster !

All I can suggest to avoid these experiences of Dante's inferno is to not 'clench' at anything with the ego's fears - let it all go, to the point of feeling like you might be peeing your pants (warm and wet overcomes you quickly !).

The imagery is just in your brain - I called it imagination soup - perverse combinations of every object I know called up, appearing, non-stop gobbledeegook. When it's 'evil' it tinged with your fear -just laugh at your ego's 'clenching' response, and let go. Watch it unfold like a movie - it will change if you 'let go' .

DMT for the most part is dangerous. I have used both spice and aya and I can honestly say it only is really meant to be used by shamans who know what there doing and who have a VERY specific reason for using it.

They know how to bargain with the entities with their icaros and generally know how to protect themselves from manevolent things. After using both forms of DMT I found that it depletes your aura or your energetic/psychic self and you are at a far worse place spiritualy then before.

What comes up most come down and an equilibrium exists in everything and DMT is no exception, you generally feel a bit euphoric after a DMT hit or after a aya session. After a few days however you feel worse, a sort of depleted, spent and even angry.

Nightmare trips like that I've had aswell and entities were involved, not dragons or anything I can really define as human, more vampiric/octopus stuff that was really disturbing. The trip had changed me, changed me for the worse. I used to feel I had some direct connection to the source and was always happy and upbeat, DMT has taken some of that away and lowered my being in some way although it's hard to pinpoint how.

Elka the stuff in these realms is 'not' all just imagination soup. Certain shamans in the amazon use DMT and Ayahuasca to send things such as astral darts and other things against their enemies. There is another side to all this that is VERY real and VERY tangible.

If you really want to see some of the dangers of DMT have a look at this link:

http://shamanism.tribe.n...f-4de3-93c1-3f3f2cb9fc37

I do not know. I did not feel much after 370 mg of rue extract although my rough estimate shows that it was equal to slightly over 6 g of rue. No adverse effects whatsoever. I kept the diet for a week and did not eat anything for more than 12 hours before the trip.

I read an earlier report of somebody smoking many times from a bong loaded with 3/4 of a gram before that person blacked out. He tripped for FOUR hours. He noticed slow onset of symptoms and I expected the same. Maybe it has something to do with metabolism because I felt as if hit by a sledgehammer. I was standing and only managed my direct body to fall in the general direction of my bed.




Yeah. And another hour after the second toke. Roughly they were 40 mg each.



Good advice. worked fine for me with other substances. Only this time there wasn't anybody to let go of anything!

When (or should I say IF?) I return to the spice I will try it with caapi. She is amazing. A stern but gentle teacher. She helped me a lot during a perticularily difficult experince. For me the vine is very psychedelic by itself.

As I took Caapi and mhrb extracts separetely I can definitely say that the DMT-colored part was dark and nigthmarish.

Out of a dozen or so DMT-related trips ALL were very difficult and two were extremely diffcult.




I know what you mean. I've met one of those in my another nightmarish trip. With its tentacles it performed a weird psychosexual act on me. Luckily that was a brief non-MAOI trip.

I don't think there is anything tangible to fear during a DMT trip.

Just as a side note:

My only terrifying trip was when I was having problems lifting off...and I put a massive unknown dose in the vaporizer... 5 minutes of hell, felt like I was being hit with a hammer and flung against walls by a giant daemon.

Most times I hear about a "bad" dmt trip it usually starts with: a) large unknown dose b) I stopped repecting the spice, thought I could handle anything it could dish out.

Respect the spice!