Hey All,

Its probably been mentioned here multiple times but I thought I would share my experience. I have had terrible troubles with goo over the years. I am working with Acacia Acuminata bark that is almost 10 years old now. I would do 3 boils of powdered bark, the base out with an excess of Lye to shoot for a high PH and then extract with Shellite (Naptha). I would then perform a mini A/B on this and still get loads of goo that I had to try and clean up resulting in loss of a lot of our beautiful molecule. I had put this down to it being old bark that must have lots of oils or DMT oxide etc.

I have just done an extraction and it turned out beautifully. I made a few changes. I will first outline what I did and what I think made the difference.
I used 500g of bark here (Yes I know that's a lot but I was virtually getting nothing out of my 10 year old bark after trying to clean up masses of goo over multiple mini A/Bs and recrystallizations.

- Shredded 500g of Acacia Acuminata bark. Shredded not powdered. I believe this to be a huge factor in the success of this extraction. I even went as far as to remove the dust from the shredded material before cooking.

- Did 3 times 2 hour cook with 1 liter of vinegar and 3 liters water in a stainless steel pressure cooker. The third cook was significantly lighter in red color than the previous two so I assumed I got most of what I wanted out of the material.

- Combined cooks and reduced to a bit over 2 liters. I let this sit overnight and then strained this through a very fine mesh filter to remove sludge.

- I divided this into two HDPE bottles and added 50 grams of salt to each and dissolved. This seemed to crash out more sludge which I filtered off. From now on I will refer only to one bottle as the process was the same in each.

- I slowly added 50grams of NaOH to 200mls of water and let cool to room temperature. Once at room temperature I added this to the bottle.

- I added 100ml of Shellite and put the bottle onto a sous vide water bath at 40 Deg C (104 F) for a couple of hours. Every 10 to 15 mins I would take it out and GENTLY roll it back and forth for around a minute. It would separate very quickly with no emulsion and I noticed the Shellite was still clear. I also noticed that the bark soup was thin and very liquid with no sludge.

- I separated the Shellite and let evaporate naturally (no fan) over a day until when I blew on it it would instantly turn the whole lot cloudy. This went into the freezer for 24 Hours.

- I did the second and 3rd pulls same method using 80ml and 60ml of Shellite but ran the Sous Vide at 50 Deg C (122F). This time I noticed the Shellite was more yellow in color.

- The first pull came of beautiful and white crystals. The second and third combined was still crystals but definitely with some oils but not straight up goo.

I have NEVER had white crystals from this bark first pull without mini A/B and extensive clean-up. What do I think made the difference?

- Shredded bark and not powdered. I have done the same thing many times with powdered bark and the sludge in my opinion releases A LOT more oils into the soup. These can easily be picked up and once they are they seem hard to get rid of even with a mini A/B. I think this was the single biggest factor in this extraction's success.

- Less NaOH. In my previous extractions I have probably gone way too heavy on the Caustic Soda. I have no idea if that has caused problems or not but it MAY be a factor.

- Controlled temperature. I could definitely see a big difference in color of the Shellite and the resulting spice between 40 Deg C (104F) and 50 Deg C (122F). It may require more pulls to get all the goodies but I'm happy to do that rather than spend time cleaning up. I also think that by controlling temperature you could control how clear or yellow you want your spice. Some like it a bit more yellow with plant oils. There was a tiny patch of yellow in the first pull and I think 35 Deg C would have made it even cleaner. The difference in scraping up the first pull to the second pull was massive with the first pull drying quickly and cleanly and the second pull taking a lot longer for the slight amount of oils in them to dry.

I have attached pics of the difference in color of Shellite between first pull and second pull and resulting spice.

Like I said I know all this info has been put here before but I have put it all down here as it made a massive difference for me. Hope it helps someone.

Cheers.

Edit: I ended up with 6.1g of Nice DMT. Pics attached of 3.1g really clean first pull and 3g of yellower and waxy but still very nice DMT from second and third pulls combined.

Cool pulls and not over shooting ph can definitely help (almost guarantee) crystal formation with acuminata, the issue is the loss of yield. What was your overall yield from 500g?

The goo you are acustomed to is still almost entirely DMT its not oils or dmt oxide, the goo is simply dmt forming oligomers/polymers. Basically the molecule is binding and stacking on itself to form goo.

The question is why do these oligomers form so easily with acacia and luckily we have several threads exploring this currently.

I got 3.2g from the first pull. I am still waiting for the second and third pull combined to dry before scraping up as it was definitely more goo like as it dried. Just by eye I am estimating another 2 grams so around 1%ish. Will know for sure in a day or two.
I think that is pretty good for 10 year old bark. I would definitely take a yield loss to have it clean like that.
I have been lurking and reading about these oilgomers. It’s an interesting topic.
Maybe the way to go is to do the first pulls at a lower temp until that is exhausted and then pull the oilgomers and polymers separately afterwards. How have people found the difference in experience both in terms of effects and harshness to smoke?

I take it that these polymers even though they are dmt do not carry across to cooler solvent then and need a bit of heat?

I would definitely be interested to run two batches side by side. One shredded and one powdered to see if any difference showed itself there both in terms of quality and yield but I’m not going to be needing any more for quite some time.

Some people I know that work with acuninata will do room temp pulls for crystals but majority don't care. Minimum polymer tek works alright for acuminata. With this tek you can get close to a gram to crystalise nicely with 100g and the remaining .8g+ can be pulled with other solvents but will give a wax polymer dmt.

I think you'll find powderised bark helps yileds but like I said you'll likely find the ph and cooler pulls are what's really helping with crystal formation. Slowly evaping without heat or too strong fan force helps too.

Funnily enough the goo can crystalise over time (occasionally, but it'll scrape up to a wax) and if its more oily than goo it will turn to a wax overtime. The time frame usually depends on the solvent. The wax is as easy to work with as the crystals. In terms of harshness and effect I and others i know have never reported a difference. Re-x acuminata goo can help form nice crystals as well although they'll be yellow. You can also make very clean smokeable salt crystals with certain salt combos. I find dmt benzoate to be smooth and easy to smoke with no irritation. BW has documented alot in this area on smokeable salt forms. They're great for long term storage, can be used orally, smokeable and looke very clean.

I will add though even though these salt forms form such nice crystals I have still gotten goo before when converting them back to freebase, so the conditions for crystallising the dmt obviously come down to many conditions I.e solvent, humidity, temperature etc.

Awesome, thanks for sharing sillysyban


I've often wondered about this too. I recently came to a similar conclusion when extracting from phyllodes.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...p;m=1232003#post1232003

Wow ok. You have sent me down a rabbit hole for sure. What other solvents are you using to get the final wax polymer dmt?

The Benzoate looks extremely interesting. When you say can be used orally do you mean without an MAOI or does it still require a harmaline?

Cheers CheeseCat. I have started looking into these polymers and it’s pretty complicated for a simple man like myself but as long as I find a way that works I’m pretty happy at the end of the day 😏

Sorry yes still requires a MAOI. But if you use d-limonene to from dmt benzoate you get orange flavoured dmt benzoate when you smoke it Which I'm still unsure if I like haha.

Xylene can be used but will result in oil it can take months to form a wax. Otherwise there's a toulene/ hexane/ heptane mix works very well and is easy enough to find it form wax almost straight away. Heated naphtha can obviously be used to to get a bit extra bit will form a wax too.

Awesome cheers. Do you have a link to a tek for the benzoate?
I’m definitely looking into this. Cheers for all this info. Only just got back into this after a long break and a lot of advancements have been made in this amazing space it seems. I’m very excited about a possible smokable source of mescaline benzoate I was reading about.

There's no tek per se, but it's easy enough to do (loveall i think has a thread). Fb dmt is quite soluble in d-limo you only need a little amount of d-limo same for benzoic acid.

Just dissolve the fb dmt in limo or use it to pull, then in a separate container dissolve say 3g of benzoic acid for every 100g of bark used in a small amount of limo. You don't need much limo to dissolve 3g of benzoic acid. Once you've done that mix the benzoic acid loaded limo with the dmt loaded limo. D-Limonene can hold both the dmt and benzoic acid but as they form dmt benzoate it crashes out which occurs quite quickly. I believe xylene works too. There's a salt combo thread worth checking out and BW has some good data on smokable salt forms.

Legend. Thank you 🙏

Yeah I also found cooler works better with acuminata, and minimum NaOH to precipitate the alkaloids. This tree seems to like a gentler approach to extraction. I have only extracted from it a small handful of times but the times I got nice crystal was with minimal heat as well. More NaOH also means more heat.

Is interesting seeing how much trouble people have getting crystals from this plant considering how clean a profile it has. Either way.. always a good smoke

Narrow leaf has a cleaner profile compared to broadleaf as per Endlessness's results. This is likely due to variation betwenn the variants but could also be weather/time of year etc.

Would be worth investigating more samples between the narrow and broad.

Agreed.. broad form in that sense is a good candidate for those interested in a more full spectrum extract. Narrow leaf also seems to be quite variable.. it is widespread throughout southern WA and certain areas are known to have higher yielding forms..

Its probably subject to hybridisation

What's interesting is maps also indicate it is found in parts of Vic I wonder if this was introduced or somehow this variety branched of independently?

Burkitti was also once classed as acuminata variety I believe. I'm currently growing a few it seems to be worth an investigation.

Hey that is interesting! Probably either cultivated or maybe is A. burkitti

Yeah would be cool to hear more info on it.. I was told by one person that the burkittii in WA was more reliable than the population over east which people didn't have such good results with.. but know very little about it personally. Would be good if people with experience came forward

It’s funny you say that. As I was doing this in my head I was calling it “The gently as she goes tek” 😎. Just a way to remind myself to be patient with temperature and gentle with the mixing.

Just as an update I ended up with 6.1g from this extraction. Pics of final results attached in post.

Curious whether you have extracted phyllodes and if so what were your results?

That is a good yield!