Over the last few years i beware involved with, and dropped out of, a local group of psychedelic enthusiasts. At first, it felt energizing to have meet- ups with like minded strangers. Eventually, it grew into a cliqueish top-down organization entirely staffed by rich white new agers and i pretty much just left. Over the years being involved with the wider psychedelic community, I've also experienced the growth of my world-view around the stuff to be more and more informed by my personal values and ethics. As a person in recovery with a background that includes criminality i think makes values important to me. I feel likein some ways I've grown up to be a drug morality police.

This brings me to what i see going on again and again, from the Dr. Gerrys and Rettigs add their sycophants, Trinity Guzman and his thousands of stolen dollars for "legal ceremonies"- and who we are preparing to resist as he sets up for psilocybin in Colorado- and now a local "business" run by a prominent local Facebook psychedelicist which will supply drug experiences within a house that are 'guided'by an alleged professional...guider?

I don't understand this world view. Why do so many of these neophytes feel the need to have everything guided? Once someone truly has a life changing experience, is the only thing they can figure out to do is to sell drugs? How, as an illegal business that obviously pays no dues, community fees or taxes nor held under any kind of scrutiny and without any operational guidelines (forsafety etc) be a good thing?

I really think that these people are misguided and uncreative at best, nefarious add greedy at worst and do nothing but contribute to a continuing of the wide held negative stereotype and belief arounddrugs and users. Helpme out with this, tell me howI'm wrong...

This stuff makes me mad and I'm not sure it should. I mean i have much other stuff to spend energy on...

Your pain is felt. I have some of the same qualms within the psychedelic community myself. People traveling to the rainforest for a guided experience damage the ecology. Ironic, people wanting to go and partake in something "natural" and in turn damage the nature it's endemic to.

In regards to the percieved echelon within psychedelic communities I see it too, riddled with egoism and hubris. (Am actually writing a diatribe about the usage of "psychonaut" due to observances such as ours).

It's something that can change, but it will take time. People have to learn to realize the bullshit on a grander scale.

Finally, I tend to agree with why should everything be guided. I "guide" people (I charge nothing), but really I'm just there with them. It's a territory that is best traversed within oneself to truly get the best out of it in my opinion. Granted I'm the guy that takes large amounts of mushrooms alone in solitude. Many people aren't necessarily willing.

But your concerns are seen and felt by others and it's by that awareness things will change.

One love

There's no reason to get mad. Not because you're wrong, but because it won't change a thing.

This has always existed. It's not that different from all these self-help books and guides, or this tony robbins guy, who is telling other people how to be succesfull while the only thing he is succesfull at himself, is making money by telling people how to be succesfull.

Well, that tony robbins guy may even be relatively harmless, as he only takes peoples money.

But what about all these people who offer a "tantric massage"?

I think if you want a guide, you best ask someone you know personally, who you can trust. Like a brother, sister, or close friend. Someone who knows you. Someone who has proven to be a true friend in the past.

There is no better guide than someone you know you can trust.

I've been concerned that I've become some kind of moralistic weirdo, I'm glad I'm not singular in these opinions, it feels like it some times...

Desperately not trying to be arrogant, but i feel that I've integrated some really tough trips into a completely transformed life, but I'd never take my personal perceived success and use it to guide others. My trip is my trip and I'd never be able to translate my success into another person's. I mean, i placed the esoteric stuff into my spiritual framework of kabbalism, western mysteries and mystical Christianity, and the personal insights into my traumas that i used to catalyze recovery are mine alone.

I don't trust myself to guide others to the grocery store, spiritual liberation? No way! From where do others get this hubris? And to charge for it? I feel that offering these kinds of "services" buys into the 'dangerous' fallacy of psychedelics. Online groups are full of first timers asking all kinds of fearful questions and "psychonauts" (oh s##t, should i start a vernacular thread? That word, "heroic dosing" and "patch rape" all need to hang with the dinosaurs... ) offering all kinds of stupid advice and recommendations.

I've never agreed with Tim Leary in my life on anything, but damn, just turn on already...


Yeah i know. I'm in therapy for it....

Though you are experiencing an extreme vexation, I'm thankful you started this thread, because I forsee us (and potentially others) connecting through this observation.

I feel as though I'm didactic pedagogical asshole about some of these things at times too... it may come with the moral territory.

For me, how "guiding" people started was just offering to trip with people that were trepedatious about tripping alone. I will pretty much always put guide in quotes, because I personally don't lead them anywhere. I stay pretty detached, and am sure to check my biases while also qualifying any statements. If there's any leading anywhere, it's only through the positing of well formulated questions that spark thought, but are not connotatively weighted. I remove my ego from their situation.

At the same time, I make sure I acknowledge my limits to them. I'm not perfect and don't feel versed enough in anything to assume any title (e.g. shaman, psychonaut, etc.) I merely practice. Humility is a big deal to me.

That being said, it's hard to understand the hubris you've highlighted of people "guiding" others in a way that they advertise and market and then also make a large profit from. It just makes it all such a trend that anything of value is overshadowed by the facade and sham. The idea that one is enlightened because they take these substances is a fallacy. There are plenty of egotistical entitled pretentious dumbasses taking psychedelics too. Psychedelics are simply tools.

And that's pretty much what my diatribe is on; poor vernacular function regarding vocabulary popularly used in respect to psychedelics in our society and it's observed impact.


Again,
One love

Ilegal, uncreative, and unethical. Very much so!

Hey Null, long time no speak.

No one is wrong here. There's nothing wrong with you and your perspective, we all are entitled to our own opinions, and there's nothing wrong with people wanting to going to the amazon for a guided experience with a Shaman.. even if it just for recreational purpose.

It's like saying, why can't religious people just pray at home by themselves? They don't need a priest to give a guided connection and they don't need to communicate with their god with a bunch of other people. But some people find value in having their experience in a group setting, or they may not have courage or trust to do the experience solo.

I'm the same as you in this sense, that I would rather have my DMT trips in the privacy of my own home. I'm not religious and I personally would just find the experience with Shaman to feel cliché and yet it is authentic in it's own way and tradition. But I would consider having psychedelics in a traditional pagan ritual if possible.

Of course there are valid concerns if people are going into the amazon to do an Aya ritual and trashing the rainforest and ecology... but I wonder what percentage of these people end up turning their lives around and have better attitudes towards nature and humanity?

The point is, we are all very different human beings. We all get off on our own things. We all have our own perspective, and that's fine. Having anger about something only effect the person who is angry It's not worth the energy, the effects on health, especially if it's not something you have the power to change (I don't even watch news anymore for this exact reason).

If it is something that you can change and want to, try to get in a frame of mind that allows you to look at the situation with compassion and work out who it is you want to help and why.