Last night SWIM brewed up a triple extracted caapi (yellow, I think) brew using a cap-full of white vinegar per extraction. Netted about 1200cc's of reddish-yellow fluid which was coffee filtered once and then reduced to a dark caramel colored 200cc volume.

SWIM found the taste (at the risk of offending) repulsive - like drinking alum, but managed to choke down about half w/o spewing. Not surprisingly, no real effects.

Is a caapi brew always this distasteful, or did SWIM do something wrong, or omit an important step?

Thanks,

N.B.

I never use vinegar anymore because I find it ruins the taste..makes it discusting.
Also was it the consistancy of caramel?..if it is really thick than you burned the brew..which makes it takse bad sometimes as well..when you reduce make sure not to boil to strongly, just simmer it and keep stirring. You dont want a thick brew..

Strong aya should be somewhat bitter..but I dont personally mind the taste..I actually like caapi.

what do you use instead of vinegar can one use some lemon juice for the brew ???

I use no acid at all..I use water that I collect from an underground spring.
They dont use acid in the amazon so I figured I could do without it. I just do 2 or 3 thorough boils, each one for a few hours and a cold water extraction for a few days inbetween the 2 boils..then reduce.

The acids dont seem to boil out..vinegar is sopposed to but I could always taste it still..and I think they make the brew ferment faster.

You can use lemon though yes.

SWIM was referred to the Herbal Percolator thread. That seems to have real possibilities!

SWIM doesn't think he burned it, but did reduce it way down. Subsequently read it might be better to drink a larger, less abhorrent volume. Live and learn!

N.B.

I find caapi tastes o.k personally,

but it does differ per person, [my wife reckons its pretty nasty].

the egg white method for binding tannins seems to reduce any yuck taste somewhat.

I tend to use phosphoric acid, it doesn't have the yuck taste of vinegar [i don't like it much],
Harmines etc have good solubility in water though, so probably not necessary [check erowid / shulgin etc]


i then put some honey or agave syrup in for flavour at the end, which can make it sorta yum : )

OK...thanks rawmo. SWIM knew about the egg white method, but thought it was for mimosa. Agave or honey could only enhance the taste.

Thanks for the advice. I'll pass it on.

N.B.

The one thing I'm wondering is, how much caapi was used?

for a good acid to use to extract caapi into water USP hcl works very nice.

food grade hcl

this is an herbal supplement/health supply store and perfectly ok to order from. they require a $30 minimum though and the hcl is much less than that.

But it works great and at least with cielo caapi the brew tastes great too.

Speaking of only caapi, swim just took a jar out of the cupboard he had mixed some older caapi extract with some newer 20X. swim mistakenly did not label the extracts but just remembered that they were 'ready to use' and that they were cielo extracts. swim eyeballed a piece not bothering to weight it, not the usual practice. and let is dissolve under the tounge. hmm... not the usual taste swim thought. about 10 minutes later he realized he had eaten the pure alkaloids which was the older unlabeled stuff... hmmm... in a slight panic thinking he ate about a gram of pure alkaloids he weighed out a sample and compared it mentally to what was eaten... only about .5gm thankfully! but still ....... swim has not taken that much caapi at once yet but i suppose we will see where it leads... i suppose it was meant to be...

I use lemon juice and it comes out delicious! I make it for the pleasure of drinking it as tea, not Aya strength.

Pokey

I always add honey and sometimes a little ginger just in case.

NEVER use lemon!!! Lemon tastes like )@(#*@)#($*@)#$@#*$)@#($*@)#$(*@)!@(#*!)@#(%*&#@%

Vinegar is safe, simple, edible, and effective, gets the job done very well, but makes a horrible taste BITE and LINGER. Vinegar will worsen the taste.

Types of vine vary extremely. Certain types, 20g can make a person puke and taste worse than death. Other times, 150g can be knocked back with no real aftertaste and not too much bitterness. Totally, totally depends on type of vine. The stomach will offer very intelligent feedback about when, how quickly, and how much to drink.

Even if the vine "tastes" okay, I also find it EXTREMELY difficult to drink, because... I feel the tea itself contains consciousness. The consciousness in every drop of tea announces itself to every cell of my body it touches--so, on the tongue, down the throat, a VERY intense process of feedback is initiated that makes drinking a feat worthy of ceremony. The body is very intelligent, and absolutely KNOWS when Caapi is involved, even if her smell and taste are masked completely.

I spent a ton of money acquiring a water filter with a digital pH setting. Yes, I don't want any prozac, birth control, fluoride, or SSRIs in my drinking water, and yes, it has also made the Ayahuasca taste much better when I could stop using vinegar.

The possibility exists that not everyone feels that way about lemon.

Pokey

What kind of water filter do you have exactly? I remember you posting 3 different companies, and I looked through them, but which one do you have exactly?

We may look into purchasing one.

What about using fumaric or citric acid powder added to the brew?

I have some white caapi and use it quite often in the range of 5-10g simmered in just enough water for around an hour (adding water if needed).
Usually reduce it to around 6oz or so and drink. Great way to start the day.

The taste without using vinegar or the lemon lead to a very earthy taste which I adore very much. I used vinegar one time and it made the brew absolutely disgusting compared to not using it. Ayahuasqueros in Peru don't use any form of acid it seems, sooo I'll go with them on this one hehe

~compassion

I also love the taste!
Lately, I've made nightcap tea from chamomilla, hops and Caapi. Delicious bittersweet earthy taste and instant waves of relaxation, usually followed by good sleep.

I made my first batch yesterday. Shredded yellow caapi slow boiled with lemon juice. I put a fair bit of honey in it. It is damn tasty...seriously, I thought this was supposed to foul. I imagine that I could reduce it down enough to make it taste gross... but I wouldn't mind having to drink 3 mugs worth for MAO inhibition.

caapi tea is delicious

i enjoy using citris to acidify the water, sometimes cranberry juice too

the citric acid would be best

i just heard of using zinc, but thats alien to me