Interesting, there are some people that believe kratom affects the thyroid. But then again there are others that claim they've been using it daily for 6+ months and their blood tests come out spotless.

Truth be told, until there has been some very extensive and vigilant research done with a respectable sample of volunteers by a trustworthy body of research we're all telling each other stories that might or might not be true for person X, Y or Z.

I hope someone invests the resources needed to better understand this interesting plant.

A hearty thank you to everyone who reached out with ideas and valuable input. Be well.

Considering areas like Thailand seem to have a longer history of use is there anything that might come out of that area? First question would be how accurate, because maybe some shenannigans but, I have to mention I don’t know much about the social climate in that area. You know what I’m trying to say here? Have they put much effort in understanding it or has it slipped by so far?

That sounds like you might have some prejudices over south east Asia. Especially if you "don’t know much about the social climate in that area". I would say the people there might not have the complete same standards as you find in western countries, but they are as well able to do serious studies and science.

My 2 cents:

Any substance 5 days a week that I can think of is likely not a good idea.

Kratom can be a net plus in your life, but take it sparingly. Maybe once a week, with frequent breaks (2 weeks or more).

Another thing: If you're looking for sedative effects, maybe Green Maeng Da is not the best . I don't have a lot of experience with the more sedating strains as I prefer the stimmy effects that a moderate dose of green maeng da (precisely) can give, but green malay at 750mg to 1gr is quite chill to me.

I think they've made it illegal in thailand, just a couple of years ago. I don't know if it was the junta government or the previous government that made this step.

It was never a mainstream drug there, like alcohol is in the west.

I heard thailand made it illegal in the 1940s because they wanted to earn more money with opium taxes. I also heard it is still and was in the past a mainstream drug there but in the underground. People tend to have their own secret trees which they harvest for them selves.
but this is getting more offtopic.

For me, honestly, the withdrawal can be near that of opium withdrawal.

I love the stuff, havent used in a while because of travelling and such, but i did use it near daily for a good 2 years or so.

I experienced negatives and positives. overall, looking back, definately more positives.

however i am left with a bit of a yearning for the stuff.

I think about it a lot and know what it does for me at certain times. really can hit the spot.

I dont think the addiction aspect is that bad though, if you maintained 2-3 times a week at most you wouldnt even have to deal with that at all.

i do really miss kratom...

if you like it do it, just be aware that there can be addiction attached to this thing.

weigh out pro's and con's.

In my experience, kratom is an addictive opiate, and requires a great deal of personal will and discipline to maintain a sustainable healthy relationship with it. It is much much easier than one might assume to fall into dependency, with increasingly dire circumstances, especially if one has a personal disposition conducive to addiction (*raises hand*).

I say this as someone who is currently neck deep in kratom dependency, so of course my opinion might be biased. I also may have lower-than-average personal will and discipline, considering I once struggled with opiate and heroin addiction for years in my past.

So here's my anecdotal evidence: My girlfriend developed an opiate addiction a few years ago, while serving as a caretaker for her terminal mother (she was in charge of all the pills), and she used kratom as a stepping stone to get off of opiates. It worked wonderfully, except that now we're both pretty heavily addicted to kratom. I had been free of all opiates for years when this transpired, with very minimal experience with kratom, and I started to take a little bit here and there when she first started working with it.

At first, it felt wonderful. Clean, invigorating, euphoric, but also somewhat subtle and balanced. I could take kratom and just relax and enjoy existing, or start cleaning my house, or doing chores, or go to work, etc. and it just felt good. I felt an obvious similarity to what opiates were in past years in my life, but kratom just felt different. It felt natural, less guilty, less hedonistic, like I was actually using it for good. It inspired me to do things, which were usually healthy things. I definitely noticed some fogginess in short term memory, but it didn't bother me much.

Nowadays, I take 25-30 grams daily, and have been for about 2 years straight. I'm not even sure exactly when it got to a point that I consider excessive, but eventually I had to concede to myself that I have a new opiate addiction. I get tired all the time, I have very little energy, and my memory sucks. I haven't been able to remember my dreams in quite a long time. I have a hard time even recalling day-to-day activities of past weeks. I have to take it before I go to sleep, and immediately upon waking, and even sometimes in the middle of the night. The withdrawal is among the worst I've experienced, and I'm a former IV heroin user. Seriously, kratom withdrawal after extended heavy use is no joke. I believe it to be just as bad as legitimate heroin withdrawal. However, I have heard reports of others who did far more kratom than me, for longer, who said it was no big deal, so maybe it's just me. But either way, the withdrawal is serious in my experience.

My current relationship with kratom is undoubtedly parasitic. The joy it provides me seems like something that I already had once, and was stolen from me, and I have to suffer in order to receive it back as some sort of distorted "gift". Losing control with my kratom use is one of the biggest regrets of my adult life.

Of course, I'm not convinced that there is anything inherently wrong with kratom; I would never say such a thing about any plant, even the poppy. There is no doubt that it is my own shortcomings that are responsible for what is now a toxic relationship with this plant, but I feel obligated to advise others that it's easier than you think. I have no doubt there are plenty of people who have more than enough willpower and discipline to maintain control over their relationship with kratom, and primarily get only benefits from it, or at least very little trade-off for their benefits, so my mistake was in not knowing myself well enough. But like I said, it's easier than you think. Before engaging in a relationship with kratom, you need to be very mindful of your own tendencies and shortcomings, and you need to stay as much in control as possible when it comes to your doses and repeated use.

My work with kratom originally felt like it was elevating me, raising me up and inspiring me to do more and be better. And now I'm in a very deep hole with it. I don't think I was deceived, or tricked, or kratom is evil or anything, but regardless of the pros/cons of kratom usage, it's a reality that many have to contend with, that they didn't predict.

I didn't mean to write this whole thing just now, but it relates closely to what's going on currently in my life so I had a lot to say. I have just recently started working with Caapi in an attempt to rid myself of the kratom parasite, and I'm optimistic.

To summarize: frequent kratom use BAD, in my experience.

I only suspected as to how insidious kratom addiction can be, and people like neb and sarek confirm this. I personally use it in small dosages and haven't really felt any withdrawal when I make a big pause. And I don't plan on heavily using it in the near future as well.

I treat it like dessert, a treat if you will. Gives me a little comfort and good vibes. I don't lean on it to deal with depression, or the mishaps of life, or anything of the sorts. But it's still good to know how easy it is to slip with it and fall victim of its tantalizing grasp.

sarek, thank you so much for sharing your story with me. Sounds like you've gone through a lot, and you're finally walking on the right path. I really hope caapi helps you. Be brave man, and remember you're strong and will endure life's blows.

Again, thank you all for the invaluable input. It's a big warning sign that I'll keep an eye on while venturing into the Kratom realms.

Peace & Love

@sarek, that pretty much mirrors my experience. Well said.

I started using kratom about 7-8 years ago, but didnt start taking it regularly till about 3-4 years ago.

The only negative effect I have noticed is addiction (physical and psychological).

Kratom has been a way for me to stop using opium/heroin/pills/fentanyl without being in horrible withdrawals.

My doses have varied over the years from 3-12g and right now im about to take ~6g of some for breakfast.