The last couple times SWIM has taken Rue Tea and then partaken in some spice, the journeys have been similar. Both times, after a brief soaring though hyperspace, the journey turned inward and it seemed as if the Ego was fractured into separate parts, to then come back together again somewhat jarringly while being tossed out of the trance.

Both times a rue tea of 3.5g was drunk, and both times 30mg of spice was smoked. He has never had these types of experiences while just smoking the spice without an MAOI.

Is it fear of Ego loss that may be causing it? An inability to let go? Does the Ego have too firm a hold on this world? Is it too low a dose of spice, as threshold experiences can be a little tougher? Are there issues that need to be worked out before the psyche will allow deeper flight into the unknown? Is it a potential sign of mental illness/multiple personalities? Or is it a deep insight into the varied factors, wants, desires, fears, that make up any individual?

He's been going over it, and is curious what others think, or if anyone has had similar experiences?

I'd say, it's likely 'yes' to all of the above ! - which are you in doubt about the most ? The MAOI isn't 'softening' the experience for you at all..? Go easy, set (MAOI or not) and setting, etc etc ...

Have you Tried the effects of rue-extract alone ? It's very subtle, but worth experimenting with. I found it relaxed me, pre-launch.

Actually, most of all up the dose - load 45 mg, and see what you can get in ! Rue-extract should give you time for two launches - did you have an empty stomach when you drank the rue-juice ?. The effects should last 40 - 60 minues when Rue-seed exract is consumed - was this your experience too?

If yes, then my friend has a problem...



I would go for that answer. I see the brain as a extremly complicated map of semi-automatic processes. With DMT firing all over the brain, some part of the map are hyperactivated, some others are boosted upon disruption.
But there is still *something* to see/perceive what happened even if what happend is outside the 'natural' range.
During a period of time, my friend experimented a lot of mess, like beeing unable to think, or wanting to think about something and thinking about something else, or feeling his left arm on the right... difficult to describe but the word 'fragmented' fit well.

Its not softening it at all, and instead is turning the experience inward rather than outward. This 2nd time the rue extract was a little more anxiety provoking rather than calming, that could certainly had an effect on the experience. I guess the thought of a prolonged/deeper experience was the cause of that. That second time, I had about 10 minutes of peak the end of which was the fusion of the fractured psyche which tossed me out of it and back into the waking world, and then the afterglow lasted for about 50 more minutes which came in waves of intensity, stronger fading to weaker building to stronger again after a few minutes. I had a bowl of cereal about 4 hours before the Rue, so a pretty empty stomach.

The only one of the scenarios which worries me is the multiple personalities. There is no history of that, so the idea leads me to think of either past lives being seen and trying to exert some influence on this one, or different aspects of the psyche all being shown at once and all clamoring for attention.

If its all a learning process, that greatly reduces the fear and instills the knowledge that there are answers to be found, if one is willing to honestly look at them.

I agree that you should try increasing the dose

Sometime when you're on borderline breakthrough your mind doesn't know which way to go. The hit was strong enough to see the otherside but not strong enough to surpress your ego's intent on saying put in this world. Sometimes this struggle can make for an uncomfortable ride

Perhaps try a white/blue lotus combination infusion first to slow your mind down, half an hour later drink the rue juice, and then half an hour later smoke the spice

Thank you all for your responses. they have gone a long way toward making me feel more comfortable about the experience. Its all a learning process and each journey has something to teach!

I wouldn't worry too much about MPD, unless you are loosing time, not remembering tasks that are being done, meeting people for the first time that already know you....etc. Severe trauma usually occurs before the age of 8 for this disorder to manifest (although as we know nothing is set in stone).

My wife has this disorder and anything ego disintegrating (ie high mushroom trip) will cause complete and utter chaos in her system and has taken over a week to recover. She wants to try spice at some point, but is waiting until our lives are a little less stressful.

Correct - I did NOT mean you are suffering a mental illness, that'll be for you to decide. If it's a 10 minute trance, and a 50 minute ride-out, that's good ! Do you think you remember better with the Rue extract..?

Turning the experience "inward" - is what I would say I try to do, letting-go with eyes closed. What do you mean by an "outward" experience ?

Stanislav Grof's work makes a lot of sense of any psychological 'manifestation' during psychedelic therapy - does anyone else know his work ? MPD-type reactions are not that uncommon during psychedelic sessions.

http://www.stanislavgrof.com/

The recall on this occasion was not any better with the Rue extract. What I mean by inward, sll I experience is my own mind and thought processes, there were no visuals that I can remember. The experience was centered on my own thoughts and it seemed as if I was split into 4 different parts, each clamoring for attention, almost like they were battling it out to see which would come out on top. But this didnt last long, and suddenly all 4 became one again and I was tossed out of the trance and the visuals returned. I was an observer of my own mind.

When I am flying though space and visualizing the multiverse in any of its manifistations, buildings, galazies, entities, that is what I would call an outward experience.