So 69ron is this right-

T. peruvianus - Mostly mescaline

T. pachanoi- Mixture of both

T. bridgesii- mostly other compounds

?

It seems like a brilliant update, and your comment would make sense if MEK was easy to acquire, it depends where you live tho. Its not easy for SWIM to get at all. IPA is even harder to get for SWIM

hcl and acetone is his only choice for a close to pure product

Antichode, a mix of acetone and d-limonene can approximate the qualities of MEK, so MEK is not really needed.

To do the cleanup with acetone and d-limonene, put 200 mg of impure mescaline acetate in 20 ml of d-limonene, and then drop wise add the acetone until the d-limonene starts taking on an amber color. Keep note of how much acetone was added. It might take 1 ml or more. I don’t know yet. At a certain point it will dissolve all the amber impurities and leave behind off white mescaline acetate. This is a little trickier than using MEK because if you overshoot the acetone you'll lose yield. You just need to add the right amount.

SWIM will look into developing the right acetone to d-limonene ratio for this clean up and will add it to the tech later. Acetone is far easier for some people to get than MEK is.

Antichode, it's all a matter of the solvent being just polar enough to dissolve the impurities but not polar enough to dissolve the mescaline (the most polar alkaloid present). So a binary solvent mixture could be developed using many different solvents. For example, naphtha and IPA, or heptane and acetone, etc.

The great thing about a binary solvent mix is that you can control just how polar the solvent mix is by adjusting the ratio between the two solvents.

The cleanup step for mescaline is the opposite for the cleanup step of bufotenine. With cacti, mescaline is the most polar alkaloid, so you need a solvent mix that is just polar enough to dissolve the impurities but not polar enough to dissolve the mescaline. With bufotenine from cebil, you need a solvent just non-polar enough to dissolve the bufotenine, but not the more polar impurities.

Sounds reasonably straight forward.

It really would be great to not use HCL, its pretty vile stuff!

Ron, do you have any idea as to whether this cleanup tek would work for carbonate?

SWIM has not messed around with the carbonate at all yet. I'm sure a similar cleanup step would work for mescaline carbonate. The same mechanisms should apply. Mescaline carbonate should be the most polar and least soluble molecule among the carbonates, so you need to find a solvent that is just polar enough to dissolve the impurities but not polar enough to dissolve mescaline carbonate. Try acetone, IPA, or MEK. It’s likely one of them will do the job.

In what state are the alkaloids inside the cactus? Are they hcl?

The cactus alkaloids are likely naturally present in the cactus as a salt with the dominant acid of the cactus. I don't know what that is but its very likely not hydrochloric acid. Probably something like citric acid or some other acid common to plants.

This product actually hardened more then one before a weighted total of 250 mg . Unfortunatelly most of it was gunk. It has about 1/5 th of activity of the first pull.

It pretty much seems like adding epsom actually not helping to increase yield of actives.
Nevermind. One can still use it in case when too much water would be accidentally added.

He only learned one think.
When just little of epsom was added into cacti-water-lime mix after draining all limonene, mixture thickened and ``spat`` out some more limonene

He remembered this required consistency

This time he pressing his luck again and doing this x-traction with 115 g of torch

1,He grinded 115 g of torch , added 30 g of calc hydroxide and mixed troughoutly. Then he passed it trough sieve and mixed it again (homogenization). His aim was to homogenize the powder and have equal distribution of both compounds in whole mixture.
2,He parboiled tap water, cooled it down to 0 C and started to pourit into homogenised mixture cacti-lime.
3,He stopped adding after reached required consistency, altogether only 220ml of this water was added (Tek would suggest add over 300 ml )
4,He let it soak and mixing it occasionaly in good 200 ml of fresh limonene.
It`s already 4th day now. He will do gar extractions probably tomorow as he was hell busy and will be again.

Just one thing to discuss. When he mixed this cacti mix and limo 2 days ago some of the limo (maybe 10-20 ml) spilled on his laps and irritating effects turned them red and it burned slightly.
ILPT is not made out of jelly ,so he just ignore it, but after hour and half he could actually feel someting, like very very low dose of cacti.
Was it just placebo or some of the mescaline freebase dissolved in limonene resorbed trought the skin ?

In general yes, but they do vary, so you will find some that don't follow that.

When you do an extract using this tech without the MEK cleanup at the end, you'll find that Peruvian Torch usually gives white crystals surrounded by amber impurities. San Pedro sometimes gives such results, but other times it's just one large mass of amber or brown sticky goo. Achuma seems to usually just be sticky goo. But after a MEK wash, they all produce the same off white mescaline acetate powder.

I would like to see more work done on Achuma’s non-mescaline alkaloids. The times SWIM extracted from it, he was very surprised at just how potent it was, and surprised at just how little mescaline it had.

SWIM has extensive experience now with the non-mescaline alkaloids of San Pedro but little experience with the same from Peruvian Torch and Achuma. Has anyone played around with the non-mescaline alkaloids of all three cacti and compared them after the mescaline was removed?

No. You need to use cold MEK.




A tech that is 100% toxic is quite different from one than is mostly nontoxic. So no it doesn’t negate the argument.

If 100% non-toxic materials are used for the entire tech, and then at the end it’s washed with MEK, which is somewhat toxic if any remains, then it’s no longer a 100% non-toxic tech. That’s true. However, MEK is found in fruit and people have been having it in their diet for thousands of years. Xylene is not found in food. MEK also easily evaporates away in minutes with no smell left, unlike xylene which can take days to evaporate, and sometimes even after many months there’s still a smell of xylene present. So xylene is definitely a less healthy solvent to use.

According to the MSDS, when consumed orally (mice) MEK is approx twice as hazardous xylene.

I agree that less of something bad is better than more of it, but in many cases it's the last step that counts...


Edit: if you compare the full body of lit then they're similar I reckon

MEK evaporates completely within a few minutes, so it's of little concern. Xylene takes ages to evaporate and there’s often enough left in the final product that you can taste it unless you do a lot of steps to remove it. So you can't really compare the two like that.

Also, MEK might have a lower LD50, but in the amounts used its definitely healthier than xylene. At most you might have less than 1% remaining in your product. We don't eat xylene, but people do eat MEK nearly everyday from fruit.

I'd say while xylene has a higher LD50, if you compare small amounts of each then MEK is still healthier. MEK also smells better.

If you were really worried about MEK, you could always do the same cleanup using d-limonene mixed with ethanol at a ratio that simulates the polarity of MEK. So it can be cleaned up using 100% food grade solvents. MEK is just easier because no mixing is required.

Hmmm, interested in the new clean up, wish I would have read it sooner b/c my friend just started converting his acetate to HCL and he would've liked to try the new step. He said he tried 250 mg of the original acetate and still didn't experience much psychedelic aspects so he's gonna go for the pure and see how it goes. I'm starting to believe he may be somewhat hard-headed when it comes to these things, he said he ate 200mg THH and 150 DMT fumarate and again not very psychedelic. Weird because he's been quite sensitive to psilocybin in the past.

OK So SWIM has ordered some MEK so he can purify his mesc acetate as per the additional step so kindly provided by 69ron (Thanks brother)

My question is this. Alot of you guys seem to talk of this hard to handle goo, but SWIM had never had any trouble with this. He places the evapourating dish in the over (no heat just with the fan on) so it never gooey and always quite easy to handle (see page 30)
Does this purification technique only work with goo, or will it also work with the solid stuff.

Also...69ron, you talk of cold MEK. Do you mean cold as in room temp or cold as in refridgerated?

Sorry, i have already posted this question on the "will mesc acetate powderise" thread, but SWIMs MEK arrived today and he wanted to get cracking : )

I use a frenchpress...but still lose limonene in the cactus. Is there a trick to avoiding this? I put 300ml in.... let it sit for a day and then press the hell out of it until no more comes out. I usually end up with 250-275ml of limonene... However, this time I only got 220ml out and I can't press another drop out.

Kemist posted once that he put anyhydrous epson salts into the mix and that helped.... I will try that after my final limonene soak on this batch.

Any thoughts? How much limonene do your friend retrieve?

peaches

I wonder if, on the last pull, water could be added to twice the volume of the cactus and allowed to sit until the limonene rose to the top.

It`s a big problem to retrieve all limo from mixture. Adding a bit of epsom will help retrieve some more limo, but don`t add too much as it will be contraproductive. In other words the volume of mixture will rise and limo will remain soak within and one could squeze it out only by using hydraulic press or something.


LOL. ILPT has exactly the same idea but he was thinking a bit more deeply about it.
According to 69ron`s SWIM mescaline freebase is fairly soluble in water. Seems like adding high volume of water will force some mescaline to migrate into this water therefore not much of it would stay in limo.
But he can be wrong.

whats up, i'm trying to find a good source for Orange Oil(d-limonene)


http://www.americanspice...67b3ee3b8aee357f45b7b476

Would this source be fine, they don't give the details of how pure it is, they actualy say it has artifical flavoring, will this work or do i need to find a pure d-limonene