So SWIM was considering drinkin cappi tea followed by extracted spice.
I know its not revolutionary and im sure its been done before, but question is, to those who have done it....how does the experience compare to an aya brew made with tradition dmt plants i.e mimosa or chacruna?
Is it very similar or does using extracted spice alter the expereince at all in a way?

Some MUST have tried this!!!

yes, its very nice

dont know if same as ayahuasca, because these trips are always so complex.. I still love my real ayahuasca, it wont be substituted, but in any case its good, go ahead.. Each one has their place

Go slow on the dmt to begin with, like 50mg or less, and work your way up if necessary... First time I took 200mg and had some serious beating haha (but was great nonetheless)

It is similar...however I personally believe that a decent % of spice in dried plant leaf material has converted to DMT N-Oxide...so it won't be exactly the same.

However, as someone that has tried this (both adding xtals to a full brew and using xtals with just Caapi) that it works well, very well. Caapi is the key with Ayahuasca.

Thanks guys...thats kinda wanted to hear.
I have been gettin my ass kicked with the rue of late so have decided that all future experimention shall be caapi based....hearing that she can be more guiding and nurturing.
I shall keep yall posted.

All the best with your explorations man...sounds like you are heading in a good direction. Caapi tea and extracted DMT seems to be very reliable way of getting out there...more so than brewing ayahuasca for me at least, although havn't attempted this for a few years.

I found the same dose of DMT could vary in impact between different sessions...my usual doses were 30g caapi tea and 250mg extracted DMT from mimosa. On on occassion this resulted in an intergalactic ass whooping, but when the electric terror and 'being at the mercy of the crocodile gods' vibe ended (very suddenly, like a switch was flipped), it was beautiful...extracted DMT seems more to the point than with ayahuasca, slightly less guidance perhaps...they are definitely different experiences...and this last time myself and my friend were both very much aware that the DMT was a chemical 'extract'...it felt 'synthetic' almost, despite knowing that DMT is a natural component of us! Weird...but after this I felt like brewing with plants was the way to go, just haven't got round to it yet...

Interesting... curious to try this route also... people do say that the spirit of Chacruna or Chali are also part of the experience, and that at least with Chali that it provides its own guidance in addition to the Caapi.

Yeah, thats exactly why i was asking.
I was wondering if the extracted spice gave for a more "void" expereicne if you will, because there is no plant spirit present.
But from whta people are saying, its not the same, but still vey nice. I suppose if the caapi is there then there is always gonna be an element of nurturing and guidance

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When swim uses caapi copy and mim xtals, a smoked session truly feels as if the Mother vine is entering his mind. It is so different than xtals alone. I refer to her as a spirit and truly feel she is in my mind at the time. I no longer use xtals w/out c.c.

I will always agree that caapi is more healing than rue. Good luck Soul.


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I finally tried this combo the other night.
i started with 60g ceilo vine boiled 3x combined-reduced
and 60mg mimosa fasw extracted.
drank vine tea first-i don't mind the taste
fb spice with fresh lemon juice stirred and drank 5 min later.
started feeling effects in the first hour-followed by a brief sleepyness, that gave way to 4 hours of very clear headed, warm body sensation with tons of energy and alertness. not really psychedelic, but very positive. the next day my thoughts were very clear, and relaxed.
i feel as though i had fully inhibited mao, i would just take more spice next time
i love the vine.

Thanks for the updates and comments.
SWIM has recently just finished an mimosa extraction and so has plenty to experiment with.
He also has some of this on order, which he plans on using with extracted crystals too
http://flowingvisions.ec.../product.php?pid=5980812

Theroretically speaking, couldnt you dissolve the required ammount of crystals in some oj and add a 2-3drops of the tincture to have a hassle free nice tasting Ayahuasca experience?

yep, theoretically yes but notice 1 drop = 3,5mg alks, so you would need more like 40 drops or smt...

Ah ok, i miscalculated.
Thanks for pointing that out. So 40 drops would be like 140mg.
I think id need more than that for good inhibition, if thats all im usin right?
Think i would need more like 200mg+ ?

depends... theres some people that need that much, there's some people that need twice as much.. It may have to do with you eating habbits also, people that eat more industrialized/aged/smoked food may need more MAOI, due to the bodies adapting to higher tyramine content and producing more MAOs, but thats just a hypothesis.. In any case there are some individual differences, gotta find your ideal dose..

Ive seen analysis of ayahuasca doses around having around 150mg of MAOIs.. In combination they are usually stronger than by themselves. Harmine alone dosages are indeed 200mg+, for harmaline its more like 100+, for THH dont know....

But anyways I dont think you can go wrong if you decide to go more for the 200mgs, but if you want to go more like 150 then I also think you will have a nice experience.. experiment with both in different ocasions and tell us what you think

Ahhh, too much extracted stuff for me.

If I'm going to work with the vine, then I work with the vine.

Caapi Vine is something very special, and I personal have never come across anything that guides like real Caapi does...if you are only looking for the feel of caapi by all means continue, but if you are looking for real healing, work with actual vine.

Rue is more like a grumpy old man, yeah he'll take you where you want to go, but he does it on his time, and don't expect any help when you get where you want to go. Caapi on the other hand is more like a gentle but stern motherly figure, who will take you where you want to go, but shows you so much more on the way there, and will hold your hand if you NEED it held (not want but need). She feels much more in tuned with people than rue...even a good strong Caapi only brew will show you how powerful and healing she is.

Just my opinion, but I dislike all the Caapi extracts and "copies" out there.

^^^^Damn i just got some Cappi Copy as i really, really don't like being sick! (i was gonna mix it with spice for a hassle-free aya exp).

Hey soulman Good luck with your adventures! As you know i've often thought of doing a cappi brew with spice...always sounded like a good idea to me!

150 gives thorough MAO inhibition for myself. the lowest I have tried is 90mg and that did the job just great, but the experience was 25% less in duration. 200 is overkill and I think it's only necassary if you want more of the harmaloid's presence in the mix.

Agreed! And whenever I can work with the vine itself, i will.
Its just sometimes the opportunity to journey may present itself when one hasnt got a brew ready, so something like this would suffice, instead of tryna rush a last minute brew when you find out you have the house to yourself last minute.

SWIM is interested to try the THP method on his next caapi brew or should I say perculation.
He has read on the THP thread that some claim it actually works better than brewing, and it tastes better, soi its gotta be a winner in my books.

Has anybody here done the THP shredded vine or does it have to be powdered to work?