Here we go, this is going to be a long one...

"Political correctness" and "social justice" are misnomers that are put in place by the weak and foolish to try and control people. The real meaning of these phrases is "I will control what you say and do from a fabricated moral standpoint". They are all about control of people and creating subservience, with lines that lead to creating a mob and burning anyone who disagrees at the stake. Metaphorically speaking that is, so far anyway. It's only character assassination at this stage.

Now it has got to the point that so many people believe the lie that it is becoming a social reality.

Let me provide a few examples...

This first one is going to raise some hackles, because the feedback loop has been very intense in the media on this one. Trump. Just the fact that a surname can be a sentence is a tribute to what I am talking about. I know I am not the only person who realises the massive manipulation and character assassination that the media is attempting against this bloke. Sure he's a ginger megalomaniac who said some bad words before. I challenge every single one of you to ask yourself if you ever said sexist, racist or misogynistic words... even in jest. Does this mean that everything else you do is without substance?

This is the power play. Because you said these words and "we" caught you, you are now invalid and worthless. You are a dog that all can spit on and discuss how we hate you because you said these words. And anyone who supports you inherently supports any of the words you ever said and is also open to being spat upon.

"Ah it's not true!" I hear the screaming already from the mob, "It's because of x, x, and x."

But it's not. It's a manipulation that pretends that it is on the side of all things good and true, but manipulators by their very nature are not good and true. They are manipulators.

Now I would like to move on to everything-ism. Everything-ism is the next power play that the mob likes to use to disenfranchise anyone who stands against them and assassinate their character. The feedback loop on this one is insane as well and so many people are falling for this lie. I have had people on the internet try and tell me that I am racist, sexist, everything-ist and fully believe what they are saying, just because I won't give them any advantage because they believe they are a "victim". Well, I am a white male... (gasp) and my son who is also a white male had a birthday sleepover last month and when his six friends arrived for the sleepover only one of the six was Caucasian also. It was a mix of all different ethnicities. People who my son likes. There is no way he invited these people because he thought they were victims and should be invited in the name of equality.

And the reason I know this... is because I cut the end off the broadcast cable that plugs into the television many years ago.

He has not yet truly experienced the self-worth and self-esteem destroying manipulation in it's full glory. In fact he is more inclined to like people who don't watch television or hear the nonsense, because he really can't relate because he does not hear the feedback loop constantly. He's exposed to some of it at school, but here in his safe place at home it does not exist. So this is his normal, for now.

I just asked my 9 year old daughter what she thinks racism is, her response "it's when a white person says bad things about a black person". She has obviously got this from school. Then I asked her "what about if a black person says bad things about a white person, is that rascist too?". After a moment of thought... "Yes" she says. This is where I cut in with a reality check for her. If I call a black person a "black bastard", and he really is a bastard it's a statement of fact. It's not racism. The mob would be screaming now that I am inherently racist and that I don't even know it. That is quite simply a power play manipulation. It is bullcrap. Racism is a inherent belief that one race is better than another, not words. IT IS NOT WORDS! This is the manipulation, that anything you ever say can be used in evidence against you.

It's exactly the same of every-ism you can think of.

And where all of this is leading is fear and segregation. The lies are actually doing the exact opposite of what they claim they are doing. Recently at my lab we needed to hire a new analyst to support our team. When talking about potential candidates all females were automatically eliminated, not because of sexism, but because we would be under constant threat of losing our jobs and/or disciplinary measures if the female decided to turn against us and claim anything-ism. As white males we are automatically guilty of everything-ism, even though there aren't any ism's to share amongst us at all. We take the piss out of all people equally, including each other and ourselves. But "victims" are entitled to claim anything they want and the onus is put upon the so called perpetrator to prove innocence, which is impossible when the "victim" is claiming the "perpetrator" said bad words.

So rather than risk our careers as we might say bad words we are forced to protect our livelihood and family's well being by not even considering any females to work with us, because we say inappropriate things all the time. It's not something we safely can ask at an interview even. "Are you easily offended? do you like taking the piss out of everyone and everything?", so there's no way to be sure that we won't be letting a fox in the hen house. This is insanity and upsets me no end, but it is also a reality. A very sad and crazy reality.

Cue rant about every-ism here and examples... you can extrapolate yourself at this stage.

Where this all comes from is "victims". Victims are now a group that people like to identify with. Rather than taking responsibility for their own emotions, their own shortcomings, their own identities it is easier to claim that they are a victim. I feel bad, I'm a victim. I didn't do well at school, I'm a victim. I'm crap at my job, I'm a victim. I want to have sex with my own gender, I'm a victim. This is an excuse that people are using rather than growing up and owning their own crap. It makes it that everything that is wrong with them isn't their fault, it's someone else's fault and because of the movement towards this logical fallacy and the media support the feedback loop tells them that it is true. Fait accompli.

And the real tragedy about this is that true victims are now part of a swarm of immature sycophants and have lost a lot of power to get any help at all. It is true that people are discriminated against and treated grossly unfairly despite being exceptional people and now they are just a number. Another casualty of this insane war on morality.

So what can I do you ask? Unplug and examine is my answer.

Unplug the commercial media from your television and radio. Do not listen to news broadcasts or advertisements. It is no longer news or information. It is propaganda that is part of this terrible mechanism that is designed to disenfranchise and induce fear and lower self esteem. By making you scared and feel less worthy you can be manipulated to buy and justify anything. This includes any war and any product. Anything and everything can be acceptable to a populace that are scared victims. Any port in the storm.

Abandon all social media. Post a single last post that if anyone wants to contact you they can do so via email or telephone. You'll probably be surprised (or not) that 99% of the so called "friends" on there will never speak to you again. They are not real to you, they are part of the feedback loop and part of the problem. You do not have to be part of this problem any longer. Opt out. Think for yourself. Do not require social acceptance or likes to do what you do and to be who you are. Do not compare yourself with others. Do not look at social media and feel inadequacy or envy for anyone else... never again. It is a mechanism to control you. A feedback loop of epic proportions.

and finally...

The only sure way out of this is to read. Read everything. Read the things you like, but especially read the things you hate because they are the things that challenge your paradigm and are most likely to open your mind. Written material has much more worth than media because someone believed it enough to write it down, which requires a hell of a lot more effort than standing in front of a camera and running their mouth. For everything you read try to find an opinion that contradicts it and read that too. Even better if you can find 3 or more opinions that are all opposing there is much worth to be found. Examine every piece of information as it presents itself to you. Everything is of value, even incorrect information because it confirms that other things you have already read are correct. By doing this it places you in a constant state of learning. This frees you. Learning is freedom. Learning is power. Not knowledge. Knowledge can be, and often is wrong.

Northy

Way ahead of you my friend! I unplugged a long time ago.

You certainly said a mouthful here. I agree with just about everything you have said here. I would only add that the manipulation is a manipulation. The manipulators are being manipulated. It is a three ring circus side show!

One way to outhink think someone is to make them think, you think, they think, you are not really thinking what they think, you think, they think, you think.

Meh...

Political correctness used to be a typically north-american phenomenon, first. Then it became an anglo-american phenomenon (the british where the first europeans to eagerly adopt the ideology), and now it's slowly sipping into continental europe as well.

There are a couple of big problems i have with it.

-it relies on pseudoscience to justify itself. The driving forces behind it are people who label themselves as experts or authorities in the field of anything "diversity". They often teach pseudo-sciences like "gender studies" at universities, where they're trying to infect the academic climate with pseudo-scientific views and practices. Examples of this are: "science is highly subjective and mostly done by white males, so most science, even physics, is white male oriented". "There is male science, but there is also female science or black science, each group has it's own science and scientific truths". "It is OK for science to be political". "As experts in the field of diversity we don't need to explain why we're right, our status as expert should be sufficient reason for everybody to obey our wishes". "Critical thinking is bad". "Personal attacks and character assasination are valid scientific methods".
Etcetera.
-The politically correct way of thinking makes people always assumr the worst. When something could be interpreted as an insult, it tells people that therefore it IS an insult. The politically correct are always paranoid as shit.
-Politically correct people tend to believe in guilt by association. They take the principle pretty far.
-There is always one way, and one way only, to deal with difficult issues.
-Nuance is out of the question.
-They don't make a distinction between saying something yourself, or quoting someone. So authors who depict racist characters, for instance, are being accused of being racists themselves. If i would say that someone else said that "obama was a traitorous nigger", then what i said was just as bad as what the person i quoted said, as if there is no distinction at all.

The right are just as politically correct in their own way though. They are every bit as paranoid, hypocrite, uncritical, un-nuanced and snowflakey as the politically correct on the left are.

The solution to all this organised dumbness is simple: intellectual discourse. And not giving a shit about what people think of you. If they want to call you a racist...don't bother. If they want to call you a social justice warrior for pointing out something that avtually WAS racist....don't bother.

Good arguments aren't going to be lost to those who matter. The ones who realy do have a functioning brain.

Beautifully said and well articulated Northerner. Agree with what you said that I highlighted.

There is a silver lining though: when the left is done burning itself, the ideal of equal opportunities for all will not be gone. And the desire for a society without violence and oppression won't be gone either.

So i'm positive, something will come to take the place of the current left. Like a phoenix.

Why is it relevant that he is black?
There is no connection between his skin color and him being a bastard but that sentence does try to construct a relationship..that's why it is in fact very racist.

I'm all for looking at intent more than outcome and stop with political correctness but...

Well, i think i'll stop here before someone calls me a nazi again who needs to be punched.
I don't really have the stomach for these hysterical discussion, i'm not Jordan Peterson.

I think the point is that you should be able to say what you think is important or relevant, and yet keep the discussion from escalating into hysteria.

So you think it IS a racist comment, and you have a good argument. This doesn't make you one of those hysterical SJW's all of a sudden, though some people are so stuck in their ideological trenches that they will strongly disagree with this.

It is important that A-you can disagree about whether this counts as racism or not. (If someone calls me a white bastard, i think it would realy depend on the context of the situation, whether i would feel discriminated or unfairly judged. I think in some cases i realy would though). But B-to also acknowledge that people sometimes say very mean things that they don't realy mean and/or later come to regret.

It would be such a waste to never forgive anyone for something they once said in the heat of an argument.

True, my main problem would be that a statement such as "you black bastard!" could be seen by others as racist which then might make this more acceptable as a big chunk of the general population tends to somehow just replicate certain structures.

Personally, i don't have a problem identifying people by their physical characteristics if its said in a neutral way...but then for some its racist to refer to someone as "that black guy" even if this person stands out because of his skin color. Doesn't mean i dislike black skin...on the contrary, actually

And then, there are certain observations about a certain group of people that i generalize knowing that you can't ascribe certain traits to every member of that group. Its just something that sticks out for me...

For instance, that americans are often super extreme and hysterical in discussions.

Does not surprise me that two main anti social justice warrior pro pc spokesmen on both sides of the political spectrum are not american.

My main interest in this has always been preserving free speech, and speaking from a place of respect. Many people are so quickly offended and hurt that they don't even consider a different meaning of what offended them in the first place.

I think a lot of the criticism leveled toward the left is valid. Social media has made it much easier for ideas to spread, and for people to behave without any kind of accountability. I feel like widespread political disillusionment, expressed through the medium of social media, helped breed a culture of call-outs and public shaming. Making an example of someone for PC brownie points has become a new kind of thinly-veiled "discourse". 'Performative wokeness', SJW culture, or whatever you wanna call it certainly exists and I don't think anyone can really deny that.

But it's also coming from a place of warranted criticism and concern for our society, and a desire to make it better. While there may be some truth in the argument against political correctness as a fad, I think it's important to take a step back and consider some of the larger issues these people are trying to address. In my experience, most of these arguments against 'PC culture' stop there, without much real acknowledgment of the bigger picture - or that a problem even exists at all. From the other side of the aisle, this apathy or lack of effort is really frustrating to deal with.

Yes, social justice is trendy and there's a lot of reactionary people on the left. I get that. But there's no need to be reactionary in return. Do a little digging. Really think about why these people are upset and where that comes from. Is it really just you? It's a two-way street, and I haven't seen many moderates volunteering to respond to some of the more aggregious acts of violence becoming commonplace on the news.

I love all you trippy bastards!!

Great conversation.

I personally try not to identify a person by a physical characteristic and if I can't do it, so be it. It is important to me to try my best. If someone was to pair an adverb like "white" or whatever to "bastard" while describing me I wouldn't like it and immediately I would think the color of my skin was an issue for the person doing the name calling so I try not to do. You can do what you want and call it what you want.

I think many of us are here because we dislike mainstream BS and can see through it, or AFTER we are here we can see through mainstream BS. Either way we all seem to be preaching to the choir on this. Are we splitting hairs?

I believe any extreme will create an opposite extreme. A far right makes a far left, etc. I also try to "BOX" people or ideas because I don't want to be boxed. Search for commonality, I see a lot in this discussion. NICE

I try not to say too much about.. well, things. Current events and political.. ahem, predicaments, in particular. Because I know that for every negative I might note, there must also be a positive somewhere, not far removed from it, that I'm not taking into account.

All I know is that I want nothing to do with any of it. Next thing you know people will be trying to antagonize the man in the wind and the west moon. When their bones are picked clean and the clean bones gone. And what if death itself were capitulated, what if death had no dominion?

Every time I see/read/watch something 'news' or public discourse related, I'm just thinking like 'What in the actual F.??'

Wake me up when they start burning the books. I'll pull out the hose.

Calling someone a black bastard is racist but i also think that someone who is not a racist can sometimes make racist comments. I have black and white friends who regularly make what could be considered derogatory comments to each other in relation to where there origins are. And they also make self depracating comments about themselves aswell.


Another example would be that if i had a black friend and he ran off with my girlfriend, i might call him a black bastard. Not because i am racist but because i would be madder than hell and would want to say something really hard to him to hurt his feelings .

I think that it very much depends on how familiar you are with someone as to how far you can go with being rude to them. I am usually quite happy when someone starts insulting me, as it says to me that that are starting to feel at ease in my presence.

Political correctness has it's place but over PCness takes the passion out of life.

A question....Here is a joke that is probably one of only 3 jokes that i can remember (for obvious reasons_)

How do you get a gay guy to fuck a woman?
Take a shit in her cunt.

Is the person who told me that joke a homophobic, foul mouthed demon? Or is he the opposite because he can see the repulsiveness of these words and understands the impact that they might have?

False, by definition it's not. Words are words, racism is an ideology. This is exactly I was getting at.


So if I called someone a "filthy mutt", only because they are a different race to me.... that would be racism, despite never using an adjective that mentioned their ethnicity.


Exactly. Racism is not words, by definition.

Anything-isms are ideologies and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is either trying to control you or has already been manipulated by someone else and is part of the feedback loop. When we attempt to stop people saying anything that could be construed by any member of society as an anything-ism against them we stop discourse and dialogue. This is what political correctness is doing to society.


What the social just movement does is remove the "intended" word out of the definition above and runs with it.

There is no way to quantify what these things are once we implement them into society. It makes it impossible for anyone to say or do anything without offending someone.

I like to rely on common decency and mutual respect, it seems logical to me... Biblical even. Though I cannot tolerate others telling me what I believe because of the words I use and then trying to change me to suit a baseless assumption that all of us are equal, all of us are winners and that I must accept everybody. I know for a fact there are many people better than me and I've lost many times as well. This doesn't make me a victim and I'm never going to try and manipulate any playing field because I'm not good at a game. I also reject some people because I find them abhorrent as individuals. And I don't have to be anything more than aloof to people I don't like. I don't deserve a prize for coming last, no one does.

I think that we are on the same page in regards to your initial post but surely when it comes to ideologies we use words to perpetuate them? And when you call someone a black bastard to insult someone, not only are you calling someone a bastard but you are also adding the word black to the insult as an adjective in order to accentuate the insult, thereby implying that it is bad to be black. Which could be very much seen as prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. My point was that sometimes "good people" can sometimes say bad things in the heat of the moment because none of us are perfect. And i think therein lies the rub. Perfection doesn't exist and has no soul. I would be highly suspicious of someone who was (or claimed to be) morally perfect and at the same time feel a bit sorry for them.

I also think that when it comes to insults and the use of words a lot of times they can be taked out of the context in which they have been meant to be used by other people.

I am not calling you out on the black bastard thing, i am just trying to be rational and logical about the whole PC/non PC thing. I think that both sides get there knickers in twists about these things. I don't understand why people get so upset and offended by near complete strangers' writings and i don't understand why people who may have said something to offend someone get so angry about the offence taken. If you offend someone why not just try and give an explanation of why you said what you did and then apologise for offending them and if they are still upset then c'est la vie...

I relation to having females at work, my place of work is the mecca of crude insults and the women we work with don't really seem to care. But if a new woman came to work with us we would modify our behaviour while she was around untill we all got accustomed to each other.

Absolutely. Great points hug46.

Something I thought, so I may as well get it out...

I have a brown dog (I really do) and when he is a bastard (which he often is), like if he comes in and starts barking at me I am likely to yell "get out ya brown bastard!". I am not doggist, and I do not believe white dogs are better than brown dogs. It's just how I react to brown dogs being bastards.

I can't remember ever insulting anyone based whilst adjectively using their skin colour to be honest. Not because I wouldn't, but just because I don't go about insulting people as I think it is indecent. And that is the reason I think this war on morality is fake, like the wars on everything else. That it is focusing on words. and not really morals at all. It's a manipulative lie.

I can see that my racism example here has been quite contentious, I'm glad to challenge people. I'm shocked that no one commented about me for calling Trump a ginger though. What about the gingers I say!?!?

I totally agree, we use words to express our thoughts, feelings and more and one cannot expect another to use a word that describes the color of another guys skin in an insult and it to be taken as anything but an insult.

I think another great example is inflection with a text message or email. Text more specifically because of it's length and the inability to express true intention in such few words. It is often the mind set of the reader that is more important than the intention of the sender.

Agreed. The written word can be misconstrued, unless someone is particularly good at getting their thoughts across by way of the that particular medium. We lack the added benefits of facial expression and body language that are important for communication. Also i think that a lot of strangers on the internet misunderstand each other simply because of a lack
of familiarity. If you know a person it is far easier to contextualise their words correctly.

The difference i see in the black bastard person/brown bastard dog analogy is that colonialism/slavery carries a lot of baggage that we should be mindful of. And i don't mean this in a self flagellating SJW way. It is simply a fact that in comparatively recent history white/western people have oppressed black people. Speaking as a white person i think
that, at the very least, we should go out of our way to show more respect to our brothers and sisters. I heard someone say in an interview about causing offence in comedy that it is always acceptable to apply pressure upwards. So if someone wants to make some derogatory comments about my white male privilege, that's ok by me. There will more than likely be some truth to it. I may try and give a nuanced retort but i certainly won't be offended or upset by it.



It is good that we can discuss without going off at the deep end, spitting our dummies and throwing toys out of prams . Hopefully in time we shall all evolve into being able to mercilessly take the piss out of each other while belly laughing.

Another thing i would like to ask is that if i say something to someone that is offensive and they decide to spread it around the internet while being outraged, who has caused the most offence? Me or them? I would say that the person who shared was causing the most offence as the receivers of said offensive material would have been none the wiser and so
not been offended if they had been left out of the loop.

I think it is key to never take anything personally as much as possible.

I grew up the only white kid on the block. Was called cracker, wonderbread, white wall, honkey, and my personal favorite... coolwhip! LMAO!

I dunno.. I never really took offense to these dickheads throwing out these comments. They were not worth my time. I felt sorry for them in many ways. It was annoying to the point that I told a group of them to "Kiss my enriched white ass", to which they laughed and responded "White boy coo! White boy coo!", obviously gaining some respect for sticking up for myself in this one instance.

This particular bunch never really bothered me after that. They would nod their heads at me when I passed them on the street.

I think anyone who makes character assassinations, comments on the way someone looks, or judges someone based on skin color is ignorant, plain and simple. That said, there is a definite fine line between harmless insults and clear intended prejudice. I think it is healthy to jab someone with a good insult from time to time. I am a dude and that is what we dudes do. It is all in jest. However, any jest that causes harm should be apologized for.

As far as the gingers go, no one cares, because gingers do not have souls.

Here is something I just came across, which elucidates my point about the social manipulation very well.

Special report: Is new facial recognition software racist?

Great headlines, massive clickfest... software could be programmed to be racist, but in this case it says that it's not. It's pure distraction.

Ugly stuff that the headline focuses on a false ism whilst skipping the real social issue of mass surveillance.