I've never heard that argument. Although i do work with a lot of people brought up through the foster care system and the amount and level of trauma that manyof these people have been subjected to is beyond belief. It makes my life look like a cake walk in compare.

Now i have heard a lot of discussion about the deficiencies of the foster care system in the US. Here, parents are either given subsidies who live under the poverty line who care for children or if unable for whatever reason the childrenare placed in foster care. There is no government facilities where children are cared for.

Please don't startup on the immigrant cages. That's not our discussion.

I get wanting to bash America and people like me who live here and are in fact American. I'm probably one of those anti"gubmint" people you're deriding. I don't like what it does and do not feel like it represents me. I get it, we are easy targets-it's like my reliance upon sarcasm for laughs- you are going to get at least one EU member to say"right on" when you denigrate the intelligence of an American. However it would be a better technique of discourse and maybe even funnier if you knew what you were bitching about.

I am very reluctant to share this information about myself... I wanted to share this because it is something that is very profound to me. I felt that I should share this given the topic.

I lived on the street from age 13 to 16. It was one of the hardest things I have ever endured in my life. The people who helped me the most were other homeless people. They were kind hearted and compassionate towards me. I received help from services like 'meals-on-wheels' which was the only reason I was able to eat somedays. I never begged for money but people did notice that I needed help and from time to time would give me some money out of nowhere. I always felt like crying when someone would do this. I really needed the help and the money I received went a long way.I would spend that money with the utmost care to stretch it as far as I could.

I got off the streets and I make pretty good money now. I am now 42 years old and I will always remember the generosity of everyone when I was a child. It was very hard and I had nightmares for years after this terrible experience in my life. It was a truly terrifying experience I wouldn't wish on anyone. My heart goes out to anyone who is homeless or is put into a situation in life where they beg for money enable to make ends meet.

I seek to repay this favor that I was given. I owe a debt in some way I feel. I give to any homeless kid every time I see one. I want to teach my daughter the value you of giving to another as well. We go and purchase new blankets from time to time and bring them to the shelter. I have her distribute the blankets to whoever she chooses. We talk to some of them and wish them well. I enjoy the interactions we have. It really makes my heart feel very good to do this!

I often carry bottled water with me in my car and will give anyone water. They are standing out there in the hot sun some days and a bottle of water is a great way to give a little something. I stopped giving money to the adults. Some beg day after day on the same corner with the same sign. I think they become reliant on this income and some of me feels it enables them to some extent. I donate to my local homeless shelter instead. I feel that the money is put to good use and they also stretch every dollar. They use the money for outreach programs, drug and alchohol rehabilitation programs and help to create more meals for more people.

Below I provided a couple of links for food for thought. Homeless Lives Matter!

https://www.ted.com/talk...ess_find_work_and_safety

https://www.motherjones....on-to-homelessness-utah/

https://www.youtube.com/...ery=helping+the+homeless

I could give countless websites and videos. Please research this topic. Help someone in need if you can. I promise you, you will feel good!!

But isn't this anti-goverrnment attitude self-defeating?
Ofcoarse you're not going to ever get a functioning government, if you don't want it to function from the beginning. If every government program is designed to fail, just so you can say "see, i told you so", then it's failure proves nothing.

Maybe i shouldn't have made the point, but as a european it just so happens to worry me that there actually are dark powers at play, like rupert murdochs mediacorp, that are constantly cultivating and feeding strong anti-european sentiments. And that the whole point of these sentiments is not that europe is often behaving just like america, wich would be a valid reason for such sentiments, but that it is not doing this enough. These sentiments, thats what's worrying me, are extremely anti-liberal. People like murdoch hate europe, because to them, europe represents liberalism. The kind of liberalism that allows for sites like these to exist, because you won't find a site like this in china or russia.

To people like murdoch, the fact that there are places where there is a functioning government that IS actually workjng for it's people and not against it, is concerning. In country's like denmark or mine, people are actually happier and healthier, live longer, are less likely to become a crime victim, and more likely to trust other human beings.
So far-right politicians and organisations, and people like murdoch, are constantly trying to undermine the succes of european liberal societies. That they spread lies about europe, calling us nanny states or communists, is only slightly annoying. But that they're trying to influence european domestic politic's, and are succesfully at making european politics look more and more like american politics, is realy concerning. Because it would turn us into less healthy, more unhappy, more criminal and less trusting people, wich would be a bad thing.

And they are succesfull at it. Ofcourse i could point at brexit, where murdoch obviously played a huge part, but i think that would maybe be too political to make the point. No, let me tell you about dutch politicians: whenever there are elections in america, dutch politicians will go over there to "watch and learn". They will join hillary's or trumps campaign people, and they will handout little hillary or trump lollypops to people, somewhere on an abandonded rainy parking lot, or will go door to door with hillary or trump pencils and badges. They visit a convention and are then so impressed with all the balloons and confetti, that they'll start immitsting everything they saw, the minute they get back.
While i don't think that what we're immitating is such a shiny beacon at all.

So, yeah, i was venting a little, like i'm doing now. Okay, not a little, but a lot. I shouldn't have, probably. I'm sorry for hijacking the thread. It just came out. Couldn't help it. But just think of a dutch secretary of state with a handfull of little hillary flags on an abandoned rainy parking lot and you'll be fine, i think.

Thank you for sharing this man. What a beautiful message. Wish you nothing but the best in life!

This is something I think about a lot, particularly now that I live in a warmer area that has more transients and homeless individuals.

First off, something that is important to think about is how much we care about the alleviation of human suffering. I live in the US, where there is a relatively decent amount of services provided to many homeless individuals (tons of free food in my area in particular). Instead of giving a dollar to a homeless person here, I could alleviate more human suffering by giving that same dollar to a certified, effective charity that works to alleviates some worse problem than homelessness.

So in a way, every dollar that I give to a homeless person/beggar (many beggars are not homeless or are homeless by sheer choice) is a dollar that I am not giving to an effective charity that could be trying to solve some problem that causes more suffering than homelessness. This is an ineffective use or funds, and according to effective altruists, is not the most moral path we could take.

Furthermore, if you believe homelessness is one of the worst problems facing humans that inflicts the most suffering, why give your dollar directly to the beggar? You are likely not an expert in charitable giving, and the person on the street might also not know themselves what is best for them. I'm not trying to sound elitist here, but many homeless individuals suffer from mental illnesses and need help from trained social workers, government agencies, local charities, etc.

I am all for having an extremely strong social safety net that prevents people from becoming homeless in the first place and houses homeless individuals who desire to have a home. We also need this kind of safety net to allow people to get out of poverty and homelessness once they are trapped by it. And I believe it is incredibly important to support local homeless shelters and the like that meet people at their level of need. But I have a personal policy of not giving directly to the homeless.

Security risks of pulling my wallet out aside, I do not want to have any culpability in supporting a bad alcohol or drug addiction. Addictions destroy people's lives, whether we on the Nexus want to admit it or not. I've seen it firsthand. Would you enable your sibling to drink themselves to death by giving them money to do so? No? Then why should you give money to some stranger, who is likely someone else's sibling, to enable the same thing?

I am not claiming that every homeless person or beggar is an addict (although where I am, probably a good >75% are), but just the probability that they are prevents me from giving directly. However, I will gladly support local shelters, social work organizations, LGBT youth homes, rehab clinics, police de-escalation programs, etc. that specialize in addressing the specific needs of these individuals.

I want to end on one point. Regardless of if you give or not, you should always acknowledge and smile at these individuals. Feeling patronized, marginalized, and ignored is extraordinarily damaging emotionally and can exacerbate these people's situations. These feelings can drive people to the point of insanity and worsen their addictions, and one's ignorance of another hurting human being can hurt your own humanity as well.

Once upon a time ago I lived with my ex gf, which she'd lived in an area of town a ways from where I'd grown up at the time. Beggars are very common there, right as you get off the highway near this one section of town there's always typically the same person/s standing there, eventually with them switching up every other day, with someone different typically. I've given several dollars on a few occasions, I'm apprehensive, but respectful.

Though with that said, there were 4 separate times over the past 6-7 years that I remember to where we'd noticed that these same people had been getting picked up down the road near this local gas station, after their day was near over they'd walk about a quarter mile down the road, get picked up in a nicer vehicle [was either a early 2000's silver mercedes, with the other time being an older black surburban suv, though with this each person was getting picked up separately from what me and her saw. Mind you these incidents were spread out over some time. Also these were the same exact faces over the course of this time ..which I find somewhat hilarious, at least in respects to this situation. I know that every beggar isn't like that, though I also know that in this area that we'd lived ..its a bad area, with quite often randoms just coming up pretty aggressively; not all the time ..but it was common. People can be played on so simply in some of these scenarios. It really doesn't surprise me that we'd noticed all this tbh.

It's unfortunate because I know that there's legitimate people that have literally lost everything in types of situations that I could probably barely-to-never understand. This can be hard to differentiate, especially when it can be so common in certain areas.

Also there was 'one' time ..haha ..oh boy.

Pulled into this local gas station, not a good area, just like the rest of the area we had been living in. I park, walk in to pre pay for gas, my ex was sitting in the car. I walk back out, pump gas, all fine, nothing out've the ordinary.

I was screwing the gas cap back on and as I was finishing, and thisafrican american guy approached me walking from ths atreet sidewalk:

"Ey, ey boy, you got a dolalr man? Huh, ..hey! hey! hey man ..hey come'here" ::siggggh::

Knowing what I know from that area and having been in several very hairy situations before - I walked back around to my drivers door to get in the car pretty quickly.

As soon as I went to sit down - my ex's windows was about halfway down, which this gentleman then proceeded to come around to her side, noticing the window was down.

He reaches in quickly, was trying to find my handle, my ex's screaming.... sigh :eep breath::

Got out, walked over, and with everything happening so fast, it was one of the situations that was somewhat hard to judge, given how it was happening. He was still bent over inside the window as I rushed around [I pretty much sprinted around as fast as I'd ever have].

I ended up grabbing the front of his t-shirt near his collar with one hand, and the other hand to grip onto the one side of his pants [full control from my end], ended up ripping him back out've the car and pushed him into the black trash pale next to the pump. [all simple grappling, bjj techniques, no harm]

My ex quickly rolled her window back up, I quickly walked back around to my side hoping this guy wasn't going to quickly get up and try to get to me. A couple people there kind-sorta ended up walking over after all this lol.

But kind've funny to me how noone wanted to help until it was all over with

This too was only a splash in the bucket. The street we'd lived on was pretty much a well known area for crack, heroin, cocaine, meth, heavily ingrained into the area. We used to have this guy named Charles that would randomly show up on certain random times throughout the week, even at night time on a few occasions

Guy always wanted to 'cut our weeds' for money, the guy would typically just come and do it, whether we'd said anything or not, and alot of the time he messed up so much of the little bit of yard she has, like literally this guy was hacking everything to pieces and leaving pulled weeds and whatnot everywhere ....thennn wanting some $$ for it

Give me a break haha. I quickly put an end to all that. People praying on others weakness .....I do not stand for that at all. Strongly apposed to that sort of thing, especially when you're repeatedly nice time and time again, with nothing changing as a result ..and then they continue without conscience, despite what'd youd told them repeatedly.

Those were a few of my experiences.

Ive given to beggars many many times in my life and ive also turned them down many many times.

Every dog has its day.

I do not give to beggars to stop the homelessness problem. It is simply an interaction and connection between two human beings. I also do not think that giving street addicts money feeds an addiction, Elvis has already left the building if you are on the streets and an addict. Getting a few euros less is not going to make someone sort themselves out.But it may give a bit of temporary relief in a really shitty situation.
We do not have the right to decide how is the best way for another person to spend their money.
The article below echoes my thoughts and is probably written better than if i were to ramble on...
Why you should give unconditionally

I don't think "loving kindness," or whatever name you put it, can be rationalized. And if all of us have one thing in common it is discovering (DMT tends to show this to us) that thought is limited, because it is always based on the known, and the known is a small, insignifcant fraction of...

In any case, I was once getting to know a guy. We stopped on a redlight and he observed the beggars on the street. A look of disgust appeared on his face and he said "they are all lazy. I go out to work and make my money and these guys beg. I never give to these people. They made their own troubles."

It was probably the GROSEST thing ever forced upon my ears.