Seriously why?

Do a larger percentage of spice users believe in it than non-spice users?

Hallucinogens do tend to make people with low standards of empirical evidence believe silly things, I suppose. For the unskeptical, it can be hard to comprehend that just because something struck you as entirely reasonable after eating a fistfull of mushrooms does not necessarily make it so.

I think it's just the next best doomsday date right?? theres always got to be one and it's got to be sometime in the near future... and then when it comes they claim the calculation was wrong or something I do think the 2012 one is genius though because they don't even claim what will happen, whether it's good or bad or what just something, I mean I'm pretty something will happen in the year 2012, a lot of things will happen, but of what bloody significance?

Oh, nothing will happen on 2012 over the night. But when we in 500 years look back at our history, we will see this time (maybe year 2000 to 2030) as the time we passed into a new age. That is just what the Mayans predicted - a new age. Not doomsday, not alien invasion, nothing such.

I was slightly interested in the whole 2012 predictions, until i found out that there actually were none. They connect it to all kinds of people predicting 2012, yet not one person actually does predict 2012. Sure the mayan calander ends in 2012 december 21st, but i think thats like the only thing that points to that date. Nostradomus did not even date his predictions, so how they come up with him predicting the world will end in 2012 is beyond my understanding.

I do believe many people fall for that shit, not only DMT users, probably more straight people than DMT'ers.

I don't really think anything will happen. I think if anything was to ever "happen" we would most likely have no knowledge of it before it does happen. However, if in the off-chance that being mentally accepting and loving etc is one of the requirements of a doomsday event....I'd like to think I'd be slightly prepared for such an event. If anything does happen and I'm not ready, well nothing lost, at least I'm no longer scared of death should it come.

I wounder how people are so against seeing the furture, time is supose to be a weird thing in its own anyway, like for example how in empty space particals can borrow energy from the furture to come into existence as long as the blow up as soon as they exist.

Someone on this forum once said that there's a lot of smart and loving people on this forum which I find to be true.
This is a very civilized forum=)

...however.
There seem to be a whole lot of pseudoscience going around, probably more then any other forum that I've been too.

Does it come from the use of spice or did it start earlier?

Maybe it has something to do with how a lot of people get in contact with spice.
Like in what context do people get their interesseted by Dmt?

Neuroscience understanding the brain or shaman spirit seeking?

If we for example compare lsd and dmt, dmt has a much stronger bond too the "magical world" through "jungle plants" used by shamans.
Acid sure has it's "mystical experience" but it comes from a much more clinical environment like chemistry labs used psychologists.

Is Dmt more related to spiritual stuff then other drugs or have I got it all backwards?

I think it makes complete sense for psychedelic users to believe things in general more so than others because it's the nature of the experience, DMT is extremely visual, SWIM has had religious experiences, still don't believe they're real but at least I'd have a reason for believing it, I mean you wouldn't be acting completely on faith...and I have a lot more respect for that than most things... but yeah, to a larger point, it can be hard not to get carried away with it because we all know you see some crazy stuff.

A lot of philosophers questioned reality based on the idea that they could possibly be hallucinating. Descartes, for example, eventually settled on the idea that the only certainty he had was that he existed. He allowed that a demon could be tricking him into experiencing the world, but if that was the case then he had to exist to be tricked, leading him to the famous saying "I think, therefore I am."

It seems backwards for someone who knows he is hallucinating to give more credence to things seen during this state, as opposed to less. Extraordinary claims such as "there are entities which humans can only detect interact with when in a certain neurological state caused by ingesting DMT" require extraordinary evidence. If DMT users started being able to communicate over vast distances by way of hyperspace, or were otherwise able to make useful predictions about the world based on things seen while under the influence of spice, then I would be greatly interested. As it stands, just because something seems real does not make it so.

Quite true unfortunately. DMT or other psychedelics would probably be easy to accept as truth when compared with religions and such that we are plastered with. To explain better....

When I was a kid I was raised catholic, and I assumed nobody would lie about this stuff. Then of course you have the first veil taken off when Christmas is fake and the Easter bunny doesn't exist. Then the "holy bread" is just baked and "blessed" by some guy rather than being a part of jesus...etc. Then we are expected to believe that "god" exists, or at least the christian god. Convenient that there is no way to prove or disprove its' existence. I've tried meditating, I've tried praying, I've tried sensing ghosts...etc. and never in my entire life have ever managed to experience something truly out of this world without any room for doubt from myself.

Until now.

So I think yea, generally speaking I would be more likely to believe something from a psychedelic seeing as it's the only thing that's ever fulfilled it's end of the bargain. Here's something that will rocket you out of this world and download the universe into your brain....Oh snap, it actually worked this time lol.

Reminds me of George Carlin's skit about sun worshiping.

yeah, carlin prayed to Joe Pesci; reported a 50/50 success rate for getting his prayers answered

I wouldn't say anything is real or not real... what is real or not is relative based on it's usage, whats useful to me.... but I'm not gonna get into that discussion because it's kinda dull at this point, and I think most philosophy is suspciously vague... I don't know what you mean by it being backwards to give more credence to something seen during a psycadelic state... I think you're missing an obvious point, and I think you're expecting a certain conclusion to "believing" your visuals... I think you said it yourself, we don't know whats real therefore you cannot give less credence to something because your on something, some would argue the straight world is not "real" and the things you see when you high are... I don't think that , but its easy to argue that point... I've already gone too far into that.. my point is simply that if you were to strictly to believe your own senses and experiences ["I'll believe it when I see it"] then it is not unreasonable to give more credence to things you've experienced, even in a psycadelic state...

An example of that for me is the religious experience on DMT, noone said anyone believed it was anything more than it was, a hallucination, but I can give credence to it because I've experienced it, I now believe the religious experience is real, that does not mean the experience is anything more than a mental apparation.

They believe because they realize they are evolving.
Everybody who uses DMT in the right way developes his conciousness and spirituality!

So,
2012 is a year of transition. I believe that this year has some significance regarding the evolvment of human conciousness.
Maybe many people will "wake up". Maybe the whole humanity finds a new way living together in peace and respect.
Maybe people will become more loving.
Who knows what will happen.

But seriously. Do you really believe that this is a hoax?

Not only Mayan culture points at this date.
There are many other who say the same!

I'm optimistic! I hope they are right.
I hope this special constellation of celestial bodys will change something on this planet!

I can understand the "realistics" who just think it's another doomsday like 2000 for example.
But let me tell you this: 2000 was not predicted by any kind of ancient culture!
2012 is a date pointed by many different cultures who were probably far more developed in certain areas of life then we are.

Somebody who doesn't believe in global faith has never seen the beautiful world from another perspective. Life is not just there! It has a meaning!

[quote=jacetea]

That's a slightly different point but I agree with it, I mean, looks at nuns and priests and stuff, some of those guys go their entire lives without even a hallucination to make them believe something.

My thoughts exactly. I don't think anything significant is going to happen - like aliens visiting the Earth, the stars lining up and forming a giant black hole destroying the entire human race, nothing.. things are going to continue on as normal, but it will be a learning lesson for all of us.. a very interesting one I can't wait to see play out.

With all respect, you can be optimistic or realistic or whatever, but it is just too vague, and too open ended, I mean, the idea that people will "wake up" I mean, that's just way too broad a prediction, catch all predictions we can't even check if they actually worked out... I mean, 2012 can come and go, and people will be able to point to anything as an example of people waking up. I dont see how a prediction from an ancient culture makes it valid, my original point was that every doomsday prediction has come from someone in the past, regardless of how far you go back, they've all been wrong... and I see no reason to give this prediction anymore credence than any other... I mean, I've heard people say it's the end of the mayan calender, but what does that even mean? all of our calenders end.. that doesnt denote anything special.... and going back to the original point, this is an ancient non-prediction, they havent actually told us what will happen... it's all a bit silly I'm sorry.

realistically the answer to the question is probably Terence McKenna, who we all love because of his beautiful writing and lectures, he was a big advocate of DMT, and I'm guessing most of us come across 2012 whilst researching Terence McKennna.

You didn't gather enough information on this topic.
I even understand your disinterest.. because all of this hoaxes in the past just trying to scare people.

Even the people who were actual mayan offspring tell about a sort of "change" humanity will have to go through. This change will happen almost automatically because of this special constellation of heavenly bodys (i mean planets etc).

You know it's not just a date, it's an astronomical happening!

no kidding.
it's called an epoch.

big deal (not really)