So I have been reading here and on a few other forums that people find that acacia and other barks (mimosa) tend to have a toxic feeling to them and that there is no long term studies with the barks, does anyone know if it is ok physically to consume the acacia tea and also what is the experience like when compared to chacruna I've read that it is a bit darker is there any truth to this?

also some people were saying to never mix acacia with caapi or other ayahuasca vines (although I did read that muricata combos well with acacia??)

Thanks all

As far as i am aware there have been no deaths related to using barks with rue or caapi alone. There was one i recall reading about but that was a combination of i believe rue & mhrb where the individual had been using cocaine as well (stimulant + maoi is a well documented no-no).

That is not to say that there is not potentially some contraindicated compounds found in barks that we are unaware of or overlooking, but IMO it would be biased to not look at the fact that some people tend to be strongly opinionated leaning in the direction of "traditional ways" for various reasons.

I have only ever used brews with barks & i am fine but then i am also on the fence about this very issue.

I would suggest to dig through some older threads. There are some really great threads here that have a wealth of information regarding analysis of the alkaloids present in both mimosa hostilis & acacia, im sure there is a chart somewhere detailing the composition of active alkaloids found in brews.

The same goes for rue & caapi. Start by looking at what we see commonly in brews & see how you feel after researching. Edit: Acacia extract alkaloid profiles Pyrocatechol seems a little iffy to me but im not an expert. The amount present is 4% of total alkaloids & does not seem to be present in rootbark. I believe the traditional crowd may source other betacarbolines present in the plants as a claim they are unsafe but i have not looked for evidence to support or disporve any safety related information in regards to other alkaloids.


I appologize for not being able to provide a direct answer but i dont believe that bark based huasca brews have enough hard data & study behind them to provide a difinitive answer. Until then it seems like doing plenty of research & making your own decision based on the available evidence is the only real answer.

Acacia, Mimosa, and Rue are absolutely fine, not dark, not toxic, not harmful to the body, it's as safe as Ayahuasca, and as capable of anything Aya can do.

Ok cool thanks for the clarification follow up question what is the standard dose for acacia I've read multiple different dosages?

On average ACRB seems to be a bit lower in active alkaloids v MHRB. Assuming you've some experience with psychedelics, 10 grams might not be unreasonable. If you're new to brewing analogue teas and are looking for facilitation of the "light"(tryptamines), working with harmala extracts can be simpler. Adequate gi(gut/liver) RIMA(MAOI) is variable, person to person. Once established, typically even lower "doses" of light can be effective. There is pharmacologic and experiential data to suggest that RIMA doses significantly in excess of those necessary for gut inhibition, effectuate an increase in brain serotonin which can blunt the DMT experience. https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&m=638815

Peace

Really 10 grams?? that seems like a lot no?

10 grams might be needed with some acacia bark if you want a strong experience. but with some bark it'd also blow anyone's head off in quite an uncomfortable manner so the best is to start low with whatever bark you end up getting and work your way up to a sweet spot.

I've got quite a lot of experiences with psychedelics, especially dmt so I thought I didn't need to tread too carefully when I started drinking rue + mimosa and one time i drank 4g rue with 2.5g mimosa and it shred me to pieces over and over and ended up being one of the most magical experiences of my life but it was also so much more than I'd ever could have imagined from the dose I thought I was taking.

Maybe start with 2.5g acacia and work your way up? you might have potent bark

The ß-carbolines can make the difference between 10 grams of ACRB being a moderate dose or a very strong dose.
Even with a strong dose of rue tea or mansked rue alkaloids, taken before the ACRB brew, 12 grams of ACRB is moderate for me. For a long time I thought I had a kilo of weak bark.
When I switched to a smaller dose of isolated harmine one hour after a THH predose 12 grams of bark, from the same batch of ACRB brew, frankly counted as an overdose. It was WAY too strong and it wiped the floor with me. With harmine and THH, 8.5 grams ranked somewhere near my previous 16 gram doses with rue alks, perhaps approaching a 20 gram dose.

Before concluding that you have weak bark you should experiment with ß-carboline dose timing, and the exact nature of the ß-carbolines used. It could effectively double or triple the number of doses of bark you have.

This is the last line in my DMT journal, from the retrospective summary after the 8.5 gram + harmine and THH trip:
"The previous 12 gram dose was clearly an overdose, this dose was still very strong. Try 4 grams in the future?!"

Hey Elrik. How much harmine and THH did you take? Do you think it was the THH what boosted the effects vs plain manske?

I havent really sorted out which boosted the effects so much, as after a few experiments I took a half-year break to explore mescaline, but I tentatively suspect it was the THH predose that more than doubled the ACRB potency.
[My ACRB extract is in the form of the purified alkaloid citrate made into a frozen stock solution with each ml representing 0.5 grams of bark. Dont judge, it was convenient at the time ]
This is what I have on pure harmine and harmine + THH:
I had been using 240 mg harmaline dominated manske crystals dissolved in liquid, taken 3 minutes before, to activate my liquid purified ACRB alkaloid citrate, it was much more rue alks than needed and produced overly intense photophobia at that dose but it made sure the experience was nice and long. I tried 240 mg of harmine hydrochloride with the alkaloids from 12 grams ACRB. It hit me like a sack of potatoes and I vomited prematurely, at 60 minutes, and the vomitus tasted and smelled of DMT. It cut the experience down several levels as it always did before when vomiting that early. Rather than re-do that trial I proceeded to try taking 150 mg THH.HCl one hour before the ACRB, and 240 mg harmine.HCl 3 minutes before the alks from 12 grams ACRB. This dosing put the THH peak at roughly the same time as the DMT peak. This experience was extremely strong, far stronger than a previous 20 gram dose. I next decided to reduce both the ACRB and the RIMA and I predosed with 150 mg THH.HCl followed by 180 mg harmine.HCl and 8.5 grams ACRB, this producing a trip in the 16-20+ gram range.

I plan to go back and verify at some point, but I think it was the THH predose that really did it. Although, if so, I cant explain why I vomited prematurely on just harmine and ACRB.
I've seen people report that a manske predose and hour or 30 minutes before a second manske dose, and then the DMT gives markedly better potentiation than without the early pre-dose. In my trials on rue I didnt personally get success with this tactic, so I dont think my success with THH was just the fact that I took A ß-carboline early.

After my last mind shattering mescaline experience, perhaps the time is right for me to re-visit DMT and clarify this issue some. Just dont expect fast work, I dont get the opportunity to trip very often.

Elrik, really fascinating you say that...
I have not had ACRB with Rue, but I have had it with Caapi tea and I must say that with Caapi tea even a 4g dose of ACRB feels moderate. 8g felt strong. I wonder if the THH plays a significant role in the potentiation?