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Harmine Crystals from Syrian Rue Options
 
Jees
#181 Posted : 1/5/2018 5:01:50 PM

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So one decade ago a manske was exotic news Pleased
It amazes me how young our practices actually are.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
concombres
#182 Posted : 1/6/2018 2:08:16 AM

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starway6 wrote:
acolon_5 wrote:
This is not my tek but the author is unknown so I cannot give due credit to the correct person.

What you need:
Syrain Rue
Salt (rock salt or iodine free table salt)
Distilled water
Vinegar

"At this moment I am looking at my Harmine HCL crystals growing on a plate... I saw this extraction somewhere else on the net, and didn't know If anyone had tried it, but it works... The first time I tried it I didn't get the 4 mm long crystals that I was supposed to get, but the whole extraction process I went through just became a cluster ---- in my kitchen... I hadn't cleaned all my glass properly, and I didn't have what I needed at that time....

Now I have seen harmine hcl for sale online and in can cost as much as $100 a gram, and you can buy a pound of seeds for less than half that and do your own extraction.... hmmmm

Anyway, here is the process I used to get the beautiful 1-4 mm long crystals growing on my plate... I don't even know who's process this is that I am stealing, but the one I use is for chem idiots like me, no math or any thing involved...

Step one:
Take your harmala seeds and boil 'em ( you can add an acid or not. I always add a little vinegar, never measure though). When they have boiled for about 30 mins, strain the water with a tea strainer into a pyrex measuring cup/mixing bowl thing you can get from a grocery store. Boil 'em again... strain into the same container. Boil 'em again... strain into the same container.

Step two:
Dump the seeds and wash the pot you were using. Boil some water and add rock salt (important to use rock salt because there is noting add to it, regular table salt fas stuff add to it. If you have to use table salt, make sure it doesn't have Iodine in it). Keep adding rock salt to your booiling water 'till No more disolves, so now you have a super saturated salt-water solution....


[EDIT: There seems to be some problems with steps two, three and four.. instead of doing step two with some water and then mixing this salt saturated solution to the rue tea, better to straight away add salt to the rue tea, saturating it with salt. No need to add cold water as said in step four. Just saturate the liquid from the rue boilings with water, which should be around 20-30g salt per 100ml liquid, and then put it in the fridge overnight, thats it]

Step three:
Strain the hot salt water into you hamarla boilings to keep out the salt rocks, Only adding enough salt water so that you have 2 or 3 parts harmala-water and 1 part Salt-water. I try to make sure that I have 3 times as much harmala solution as I have salt water.

Step four:
Stir it all up, then add a little bit of cold water to aid in the cooling of the mixture...SOMETHING should precipitate out. That's a good thing: the crystals form when the temp of the solution drops. Put it in the freezer for an hour. After that put it in the fridge for a few hours (longer if ya like, but three of four hours is what I did).

Step five:
There should be a whole bunch of crystals and grunge at the bottom of your container It doesn't matter how big the crystals are just yet.... I could hardly notice that they were actually crystals, the just happened to be about 1 mm little needles. Now it should be strained again...I used a bandanna to strain, but a t-shirt will work... Put your filter cloth over the top of a big stock pot and slowly pour you crungy/crystal solution through it... Now you can dump the shit in the pot outand lay your t-shirt over the pot under a fan to dry out...

[EDIT: Do step 6 at your own risk. dissolving harmalas in different types of alcohol and acetone seem to create a different reddish and gooey product that is sometimes called Harmala Red, and it is possibly inactive, though there is little info on what it is exactly and if its really inactive, its toxicological safety, etc)

Step six:
It should look like you have extracted sparkling dirt from the seeds... Scrape all your sparkling dirt off your t-shirt and into a clear glass container and add just enough methyl alcohol (ethyl should work too though, and you will know when there's enough you'll have yellowish/reddish/orangish alchy with brown shit in the bottom). The sparkles dissolve and the crunge doesn't... strain again through a t-shirt and into your a flat Pyrex baking dish or onto a clear plate. Place under a fan or somewhere with adequate ventilation and wait and watch.... "



is this rescepi above ok to get rue crystals or is it out dated ..to get HCI crystals dont i have to involve hydracloric acid???

any opinion welcom!


You will get HCL crystals with the salt/manske precip. If im not mistaken the way it works is that the acetic acid reacts with the sodium chloride to form a small amount of hydrochloric acid in solution, which then bonds with your harmalas to form harmine/harmaline HCL while simeltaneously taking advantage of the low solubility of the HCL salts of harmalas in salt saturated solution.
 
Loveall
#183 Posted : 1/6/2018 1:10:11 PM

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I think it works in any acid and no HCl is formed and no hydrochloric acid bonds to harmalas. In an acidic environment, the harmalas will accept an H+. Once they do that, they are in salt form and share a common ion with Na+, the common ion being Cl-. Turns out that the harmalaH+ and Cl- ion equilibrium constant pushes harmalaHCl to form and precipitate when the Cl- concentration is high and temperature is low.

Also, nothing special about Na+, any source of Cl- ions should work (KCl for example). Source just needs to remain soluble at low temp so the Cl- are pushing the harmalas to precipitate.

In short, as long as one has harmalaH+ (naturally happens in acid pH and is aka pronated, aka salt form), a reliable source of Cl- ions, and cold, manske (harmalaHCl precipitation) should occur.

I'm not a chemist, this is just what I've gathered so far. If I'm wrong it would be interesting to know. Thanks.
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starway6
#184 Posted : 1/6/2018 3:10:40 PM

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Thanks for reply Shadowman x..and everyone...

The tec looks easy !...will crystals cause less stomach problems than something less pure?

Will crystals vaporize easier than a less pure harmalas?



[[[Where did i read that too much salt could cause problems?//]]
 
starway6
#185 Posted : 1/8/2018 3:59:38 PM

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well i did a quick small scale test on two and a half grams of rue seed .. but i may have used too much salt?

Because after one hour in freezer .. a crystaline mass appeared on bottom of dish ... then I left it in refrigerator all night...

The crystal mass tastes much like salt.. and i assume the harmala is mixed in it?

I know it shouldent be much... but just how much harmala crystals should i expect to get from 2 and a half grams of rue seeds?

Is there any way to sepperate the harmala from the salt crystals/

im shure ill have to try this again...
 
starway6
#186 Posted : 1/8/2018 4:04:03 PM

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Because of the salty taste i didnt get to the alcohol part of the test yet...

this info on line says too much salt could cause this problem...

Erowid Syrian Rue Vaults: Extraction : Overview
https://erowid.org/plant...an_rue_extraction5.shtml
A brief overview of Syrian Rue Extractions, by Zam. ... The most common method for extracting harmala from Syrian Rue seeds is a simple boiling extraction. ... One pitfall with this method is that if too much salt is added, it can also precipitate out as the water cools and extractors end up with a mix of harmala and NaCl.


 
Shadowman-x
#187 Posted : 1/8/2018 6:29:23 PM

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two and a half grams of seeds? Big grin buddy!
use 100G of seeds. Its easy! They're cheap and you really can't muck it up too much.
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
 
starway6
#188 Posted : 1/8/2018 7:44:57 PM

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Shadowman-x wrote:
two and a half grams of seeds? Big grin buddy!
use 100G of seeds. Its easy! They're cheap and you really can't muck it up too much.



I got plenty of rue seed too ...i just wanted to start low as a test to to get the method right.. and see how much crystal equals ..[one dose]..

Because 2 and a half grams is usualy considered one good dose for rue tea...

I also figured that the crystal harmala is much stronger and if i could see and weigh one dose of crystal rue i would know what dosage i was taking..

I was thinking of saftey not being cheap with rue seed!
 
Loveall
#189 Posted : 1/8/2018 9:30:39 PM

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Usually one obtains a few grams of manske crystals from 100g of rue seeds. Then you dose a few dozen mg when you want following dosing guidelines.
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melotikaci
#190 Posted : 1/9/2018 11:26:25 AM

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starway6 wrote:

I got plenty of rue seed too ...i just wanted to start low as a test to to get the method right.. and see how much crystal equals ..[one dose]..

Because 2 and a half grams is usualy considered one good dose for rue tea...

I also figured that the crystal harmala is much stronger and if i could see and weigh one dose of crystal rue i would know what dosage i was taking..

I was thinking of saftey not being cheap with rue seed!

Generally speaking rue seeds contain ~5% of harmala alkaloids. I usually get around ~3% from extraction (TEK). You can make approximate calculations based on that.

If you think you added too much salt, you can dissolve it in hot water, base, filter and dry well(check the tek for more info). Then convert it to salt again or use freebase for vaping.
 
starway6
#191 Posted : 1/9/2018 3:23:37 PM

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melotikaci wrote:
[quote=starway6]


If you think you added too much salt, you can dissolve it in hot water, base, filter and dry well(check the tek for more info). Then convert it to salt again or use freebase for vaping.



Thanks for info!..melotikaci


Do you think ..rue freebase.. will vaporize well?..and if so at what temperature?
 
melotikaci
#192 Posted : 1/9/2018 6:00:30 PM

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starway6 wrote:

Thanks for info!..melotikaci

Do you think ..rue freebase.. will vaporize well?..and if so at what temperature?

That's what I always do. I vape it 5-10 minutes before dmt or mix with weed. It's better vaped if mixed with other herbs, but can be smoked alone using simple pipe. It can take much higher temps than dmt so you cant go wrong with any device.

~15mg is enough for MAO inhibition and you can go higher if you like the effects(kinda mix of drunk and high but with clear head), I've gone up to 50-60mg and I loved it. Prolongs trip for 20-40 minutes and creates whole new depths to explore.




 
starway6
#193 Posted : 1/9/2018 8:01:20 PM

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in acolons tec top of first page there is something that doesnt make sense...?




his is not my tek but the author is unknown so I cannot give due credit to the correct person.

What you need:
Syrain Rue
Salt (rock salt or iodine free table salt)
Distilled water
Vinegar


[EDIT: There seems to be some problems with steps two, three and four.. instead of doing step two with some water and then mixing this salt saturated solution to the rue tea, better to straight away add salt to the rue tea, saturating it with salt. No need to add cold water as said in step four. Just saturate the liquid from the rue boilings with water, which should be around 20-30g salt per 100ml liquid, and then put it in the fridge overnight, thats it]


Just saturate the liquid from the rue boilings with water, which should be around 20-30g salt per 100ml liquid, and then put it in the fridge overnight, thats it]



[[[[20 to 30 grams of salt per 100ml??????Shocked ]]]


20 or 30 grams of table salt would fill a 100ml jar up more that half way leaving very little room for the liquid/?Shocked

Would this amount of salt be overkill? resulting in lots of salt crystals mixed with the harmine?

Too much salt that will later end up in final product?
 
Infundibulum
#194 Posted : 1/9/2018 9:06:01 PM

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starway6 wrote:

20 or 30 grams of table salt would fill a 100ml jar up more that half way leaving very little room for the liquid/?Shocked

Would this amount of salt be overkill? resulting in lots of salt crystals mixed with the harmine?

Too much salt that will later end up in final product?


Dissolve 20 g of salt in 50-60 ml of water, then adjust the final volume to 100 ml in a separate vessel, then mix with the harmala acetates.

Too much salt is not overkill, harmala hydrochlorides can be washed many times in the fridge overnight with ice-cold water with minimal loss.


Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
starway6
#195 Posted : 1/9/2018 10:07:12 PM

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Infundibulum wrote:
[quote=starway6]

Too much salt is not overkill, harmala hydrochlorides can be washed many times in the fridge overnight with ice-cold water with minimal loss.


I guess im not understanding how all this salt in reduced volume of water will disapear/?

how do the hydrochlorides get washed away in the fridge overnight?

do i rewmove the salt water gradually over night and replace with water?

20 grams of table salt is a good pile of salt..just dont want 20 grams of desolved salt to re crystalize in dish as it cools in the fridge leaving me a pile of salt in the morning ?



 
Infundibulum
#196 Posted : 1/10/2018 1:52:45 PM

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starway6 wrote:
Infundibulum wrote:
[quote=starway6]

Too much salt is not overkill, harmala hydrochlorides can be washed many times in the fridge overnight with ice-cold water with minimal loss.


I guess im not understanding how all this salt in reduced volume of water will disapear/?

how do the hydrochlorides get washed away in the fridge overnight?

do i rewmove the salt water gradually over night and replace with water?

20 grams of table salt is a good pile of salt..just dont want 20 grams of desolved salt to re crystalize in dish as it cools in the fridge leaving me a pile of salt in the morning ?




The salt does not disappear, it dissolves in the water. If you are worried it may not dissolve, try 10 g of salt in a total volume of 100 ml water as per original Manske. The least you can do is try it.

As long as you mix the salt solution with the harmala acetates and leave in the fridge, , the harmala hydrochlorides will precipitate and will not be dissolving in water any more. At this stage you can remove the water (in w/e way you refer, e.g. decant, filtrate etc) and be left with harmala hydrochlorides sludge.

This sludge will have traces of table salt. Add tap water and leave in the fridge for a few days. The harmala hydrochlorides will precipitate and the residual table salt will be dissolved in the added voluem of water.




Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
Jees
#197 Posted : 1/10/2018 2:42:33 PM

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Infundibulum wrote:
... Add tap water and leave in the fridge for a few days. The harmala hydrochlorides will precipitate and the residual table salt will be dissolved in the added voluem of water.
Must try that, thank you. I've never digged into the solubility of harmala hydrochlorides in cold water, the wiki only sais: "soluble in water" without mentioning different temperatures.
 
starway6
#198 Posted : 1/10/2018 7:23:16 PM

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Infundibulum wrote:
starway6 wrote:
Infundibulum wrote:
[quote=starway6]

Too much salt is not overkill, harmala hydrochlorides can be washed many times in the fridge overnight with ice-cold water with minimal loss.


I guess im not understanding how all this salt in reduced volume of water will disapear/?

how do the hydrochlorides get washed away in the fridge overnight?

do i rewmove the salt water gradually over night and replace with water?

20 grams of table salt is a good pile of salt..just dont want 20 grams of desolved salt to re crystalize in dish as it cools in the fridge leaving me a pile of salt in the morning ?




The salt does not disappear, it dissolves in the water. If you are worried it may not dissolve, try 10 g of salt in a total volume of 100 ml water as per original Manske. The least you can do is try it.

As long as you mix the salt solution with the harmala acetates and leave in the fridge, , the harmala hydrochlorides will precipitate and will not be dissolving in water any more. At this stage you can remove the water (in w/e way you refer, e.g. decant, filtrate etc) and be left with harmala hydrochlorides sludge.

This sludge will have traces of table salt. Add tap water and leave in the fridge for a few days. The harmala hydrochlorides will precipitate and the residual table salt will be dissolved in the added voluem of water.






ok thanks...this is a bit easier to understand ..



So as long as i can desolve the salt in water and remove it later.. and the harmala doesnt desolve in the water im ok!

After searching rue history.. on line.. i found out that rue grows wild in the desert! not shure what species though.... and i could drive there in a few hours if need be..

I guess some farmer planted a few seeds back in the 1920s or 30s and it grows abundantly now..
 
starway6
#199 Posted : 1/10/2018 7:34:43 PM

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Forgot to say that i ground up 100 grams of rue seed in a blender like a powder... now its a struggle to filter the stuff because now it like filtering thisk paint through a filter extreemly slow unless i add a lot more water...

Hey they say that rue glows green in front of a black light...

After the boiling.. i washed out my pots and while rinsing the pot.. THE WATER I POURED OUT LOOKED emerld green in day light! with the sun shining!!Thumbs up

How could this green show up with out a black light?
 
Infundibulum
#200 Posted : 1/10/2018 7:41:07 PM

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starway6 wrote:
How could this green show up with out a black light?


Sunlight has UV wavelengths too.


Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here!
Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!

 
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