Ive smoked lots of dmt.. but never taken oral yet...

Was thinking on the line of converting acacia freebase spice to a salt in orange juice ...or mixing with cola to a phosphate form ?...which form is better??

I will drink about 2 grams of rue tea 30 minutes before 30mgs of spice on fairly empty stomach..will this combo activate the dmt properly?

I dont want a heavy experiance on the first try ..just trying to get the feel of the oral experiance and slowly up the dosage over time..


Is this dosage enough to trip mildly on..? i weigh about 150lbs...

any opinions?

i would recommend using orange juice or lemon juice just because of the caffeine

Use at least 3 grams of Rue, probably don't wanna take more than 4.5 grams, 4 grams is pretty strong, 3 grams is moderate, 2.5 grams is light, 2 grams is not enough for adequate MAO-A inhibition. For Rue tea you probably wanna take the Acacia 10 to 20 minutes after the Rue, whereas with Rue seed powder in capsules, you can take it after 30 minutes. Ime/imo, Harmala teas don't seem to inhibit gut MAO-A for long, usually about 20 minutes max, whereas capsules inhibit gut MAO-A for up to about an hour and a half if i remember correctly.

Thanks for response ..i take it you have done this combo [acacia and rue oraly?]

I have checked online for oral acacia and rue trip reports were ..[insanely color full and visual].. and most claim the trip lasted at least 3 to 5 hours or longer...

you mentioned ...[[an hour and a half]].. were you talking about rue tea with smoked dmt experiance?

when i try i want to avoid nausea as much as possible..

Yeah i've taken Acacia root with Rue and Rue/Harmala extracts quite a lot, especially with Lemon Balm in the mix. I've used Acacia teas using egg whites to reduce tannin content (though potency can be variable ime), and have used Acacia residues from evaporating a room temp or cold temp non-boiled tea. I've been away for a couple years but i look forward to getting back to my experimentation sometime or another.

I don't tend to get closed eyed visuals or visions from Acacia or Mimosa, i also don't seem to get visuals or visions from Changa, but i've gotten some visuals in my experiences just hard to make out though i see third eye imagery clearer with eyes open, and i've had one full on closed eyed vision which was a precognitive vision about my dad's death which happened a couple weeks after i had the vision, which the vision was clear and detailed.

But yes with full MAO-A inhibition Acacia lasts about 4 to 5 hours. And the encapsulated oral Harmala or Rue extract or Rue seed powder seems to inhibit gut MAO-A for about an hour to an hour and a half, two hours seems too late ime, whereas Harmalas/Rue/Caapi in tea form seems to inhibit gut MAO-A for a shorter amount of time apparently, usually about 20 minutes max i think.

3 grams is a good dose of Rue that should not cause nausea or vomiting (at least on the Harmalas part), there could be some slight stomach weirdness at 3.5 grams but ime usually it doesn't cause nausea/vomiting. 4 to 4.5 grams though will definitely cause the purge. Like i said though 2 to 2.5 grams is a light dose of Rue, and while it may partially activate oral DMT, the DMT will be shorter in duration, so anywhere from say 30 minutes to a couple hours maybe, and you will need a good bit more of the DMT (whereas if you have more full MAO-A inhibition, less DMT would be needed for a full dose). There are some people who are low in CYP2D6 or who don't have as much MAO-A that needs to be inhibited that 2.5 grams of Rue might be all that's needed, but generally for most people 3 grams is the recommended common dosage for oral DMT activation. Alternatively, you could make or buy a freebased Rue extract or freebased purified Harmala extract, encapsulate a dose of 185 to 200mgs and take that, one can also do that with Caapi as well though i've only tried that once or twice and i'm not sure of the freebased Caapi extract dosage. You could use the HCL salts of the Harmalas, but i recommend freebase because i think it's easier to work with and can be used orally, sublingually, maybe even insufflated, and smoked.

I find it strange that you dont get strong visuals from oral dmt and maio?

Mabye it has to do with timing ..as this post below explains?



syberdelic
#12
Posted : 5/1/2017 12:19:41 PM
QUOTE

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k wrote:
Concombres, in your experience how much time gap to give? I don't need to wait to start feeling the harmalas effect(s) right?

Others are also welcome to answer Smile


If you wait long enough to feel the harmala effect, you have waited tooooo long. For me, the harmalas kick in at about 1 hour at which point MAO inhibition in the stomach will have diminished significantly. I once did this (1hr.) with 60mg DMT. I could feel it and had very minor visuals, but 60mg should be much more obvious and possibly slightly intense. The difficult part is that harmala dosage and MAO inhibition vary widely from person to person. If you experiment with harmala dosage before adding DMT, this will give you a good frame of reference. What you are aiming for is a dose that by T+90 feels similar to a couple beers, glasses of wine, or shots of liquor. For me, this is 200-250mg harmine HCl. That would be equivalent to 100-125mg harmaline HCl or 150-180mg of syrian rue extract (fairly pure).

Once you find this dose, then comes the timing so that maximum MAO inhibition is in effect when you drop DMT into your stomach. This also is going to vary widely from person to person since there are different genetic profiles for MAO expression and liver enzymes. For some people, this happens so rapidly that there is no need to take the two substances seperately. For myself, the majic window is about 20 minutes. If I use this window, I can feel the DMT having a marked effect on me in no more than 10 minutes after drinking it (aqeous DMT citrate). It comes on so strong and quickly that by T+12 (DMT) I purge.

However, if I drink them together, it is no surprise that I start unmistakably feeling the DMT at T+20. In this circumstance, there is a marked decrease in effect with the same dose. Maybe on the order of 30-35% less. To me, this means that my MAO enzymes begin to break down the DMT before the harmine has a chance to inhibit the enzymes. Now, I'm not advocating that my magical 20 minute window will work for everyone, but it will surely work for some. I believe that depending on the person, this window will be somewhere between 0 and 30 minutes. What I would suggest is careful experimentation with a mild to moderate dose of DMT and the dose of harmalas that gives the target affect mentioned above. Start by taking together as this obviously works well for many people. Then incrementally spread by 5 minutes using exactly the same low to moderate dosage until you notice a difference. Whatever spread gives you the maximum effect and quickest onset after taking the DMT is YOUR magic window. If you feel less effect than previously, then you have gone too far.

If you don't want to experiment, I would suggest a 5 or 10 minute spread between the two as this will likely be close to the middle of the bell curve and give the maximum effect to the most people. Also, try to avoid gel caps unless you mix them together before placing in caps. It is very difficult to gauge how fast the gelatin will dissolve in your stomach. Even if you put the harmalas in one and the DMT in another and take at the same time, the DMT cap could very possibly open up before the harmalas and result in a paltry trip or none at all.