It would be nice if someone would try the hydrogen peroxide idea. Sounds interesting.

I think most likely it'll just make harmine N-oxide and harmaline N-oxide though. I believe the dye known as "harmala red" is harmaline N-oxide.

So as a non-chemist do I get one point for an interesting idea? Or not?

P.S. Only since this is completely legal where I live, I have Syrian Rue seeds that have sat in almost pure vinegar for 3 years. I can complete this Manske and send the results for a proper bioassay-- or whatever they call it-- to an appropriate member of the community-- to perform that P.K.A thing or whatever-- to run that word-- and thereby at least see if over time-- in a strongly acidic mode-- if three years of natural time-- is enough to generate some-- I want to say-- degradation/reduction-- or better yet-- evolution into THH. Thanks for your consideration...

ok so I thought I would resurrect this thread as I have just stumbled upon an interesting development. There is a native Australian plant that may have workable levels.

Acacia complanata, generally known as Long-pod Wattle and Flat-stemmed Wattle, is a perennial tree native to Australia. It can grow 5–6 m tall, but more often it grows as a large shrub. It is not listed as being a threatened species. It is commonly used in environmental management.

The major base is Nb-methyltetrahydroharman, isolable to 0.3%, but there are also trace amounts of tetrahydroharman and N-methyltetrahydroharman.

oooookkkkk, this line of research has proved very interesting.

Here is some info about another possible species:

aren't tetrahydroharmine and tetrahydroharman two different things?

errrrm , I only just woke up and misread the info I posted, thanks for pointing that out, lol - definitely two different molecules

please disregard my ramblings

I'd still be interested in the effects of THHarman though. I know you can get harman in some syrian rue, but I've never heard of this other.

A friend I know is going on a field expedition sometime soon and will definitely get some complanata to work with. I will relay any results to this thread as I think it would be interesting to see what the effects were like

I'll keep my ear to the ground/eye's to the nexus etc...

this has tickled my memory... 69ron had some helpful info

my elf friend is still going to try some THHarman and report the effects... even though the molecule looks somewhat unique in comparison I think that it is similar enough to be worth investigating further

here is the harman structure for comparisons sake

I've always wondered, does harmalol make you laugh out loud?

I came across a thread which mentions a source for pure zinc dust which I have been having trouble locating locally. Im thinking this info may come in useful for some of you guys so I thought I would share it in this thread.

http://kremer-pigmente.d...ng=ENG&product=54700

Im eager to try the zinc and hcl route of thh coversion once I get some more free time.

awesome! did you retrieve it after precipitating? how, through filtering? was there any loss? how did it look like as a freebase, was it crystaline/solid ?

Dagger, this is indeed amazing!

did you also notice other things, like colour changes? What was the colour of thh-cl when dissolved in water? did it dissolve in water (normally pH ~7) easily or you had to use some acid to aid the dissolution (mind you that THH-cl is slightly acidic by its nature)? Also, did the solution change colour after basification? What was the maximum pH at which THH kept on crashing?

Hmmm could you run a small Manske on THH to see if THH HCl precipitates with this method? It would be rather interesting.

Ok This is the answer I was looking for but I guess I was searching the wrong thread. I guess this means THH will not get left behind during a Manske? No THH left behind...

So has the FV issue killed this thread? I would very much like to learn more on THH and ways to reduce to it. I am definitely in agreement with others on the cloudiness of harmaline, and would really like to know how to convert it. If I had the funds I would definitely contribute to searching this out, but I don't have the equipment, or the funds to acquire equipment, at the moment.

From what I have read here and on this post, the citric acid and water is a questionable tek. We should definitely get a solid determination on that.

Second, has SWIM attempted the hydrochloric acid and zinc, has SWIM had any success?

What are the other options?

Is it correct that reduction is only possible or simplest with harmaline, because of the structure of the molecule?