Hey y'all,

Some advice here I've compiled for anyone wanting to work with 5-MeO safely, with the intention of getting the most out of it. I'm certainly not advocating this approach as the only way, this is a personal path, and different strokes for different folks! I just figured some guidelines could minimise potential risks and be of value to 5-MeOnauts, particularly people who are new to the compound. These guidelines came about through exchanges with a number of seasoned explorers of 5-MeO space including James Oroc and Martin Ball, and the guidelines have been vetted and approved by admins of the 5-Hive forum, who really know their 5-MeO. I hope they prove helpful.

- Consume the 5-MeO in a safe and secure setting in quiet and comfortable surroundings, lying or comfortably reclining on a bed, mat or recliner chair, with all breakable or potentially dangerous objects removed from the vicinity. Make sure all potential sources of distraction or intrusion such as phones, animals or people coming in have been dealt with. The presence of a sober sitter would definitely be highly recommended if you are new to the compound.

- Be sober and free of intoxicants or medications. Cannabis is not contraindicated with 5-MeO, and may allow one to stay in the space for longer, but it certainly isn't necessary. One should not be on MAOI's, RIMA's or SSRI's at the time. Avoid alcohol. It is good to be well rested, well-nourished and well hydrated prior to a session, but to have an empty stomach. It is good to consume a light healthy meal 3-4 hours prior to the experience, but then refrain from eating. Drinking a good amount of water in the day prior is also recommended, but one can refrain from imbibing liquids 2 hours prior to ingesting the 5-MeO. One should be calm and centered with a mind as clear and uncluttered as possible going into the experience.

- Some people may find a preparatory session of yogic asanas and deep breathing in the form of yogic pranayama exercises may be advantageous in providing a state of calm relaxation going into the experience. This is well worth experimenting with, and may synergise positively with the experience and aid in both witnessing and integration of the experience. A session of yogic box breathing (breathe in for 8 seconds - hold for 8 seconds - breathe out for 8 seconds - hold for 8 seconds...and repeat) prior to one's experience may prove beneficial, and it may be used as a navigational aid later on in the experience. Alternate nostril breathing, known as Nadi shodhana pranayama, would be another great alternative or supplementary breathwork practice.

- If vaporising, a torch lighter and glass lollipop pipe make for a highly effective means of launching. One should apply the lighter to the bowl of the pipe containing the measured dosage and heat for 10 seconds or so, while observing the 5-MeO melting and turning to vapour. Prior to smoking, take a few deep breaths, and prior to taking the pipe, breathe out completely. Then with the pipe, take a long, slow, deep breath. Hold one's breathe as long as they can comfortably, set the pipe aside, and then lie down. One can count to 10 after lying down with their breathe held if they wish. If using the pipe repeatedly in a ceremonial context, it is important to be aware of potential 5-MeO residues in the pipe which may affect subsequent dosages.

- Stagger up one’s dosage at 1/2mg at a time, to find one’s individual release/OBE dose (this will vary widely, and this is definitely not a "one size fits all" vibe when it comes to dosage). Alternatively, start off with low sub-breakthrough doses and build up from there as one desires to gain a feel for 5-MeO and to allow for idiosyncratic variations in response to the substance, and being familiar with the substance at low doses should be of benefit when dosing higher and venturing into deeper experiential waters. More is not better here, and the minimal dose required for release will reduce white-outs and amnesia and allow for more recall of the experience, while minimising risks...worth remembering that 5-MeO is a far more potent drug than N,N-DMT and more care is required when dosing. One can either use a highly sensitive scale (which can be expensive), or acquire some milligram measuring scoops (much cheaper, just not as precise) for this purpose.

Advice on accurate dosing using milligram measuring scoops is provided here:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=75488

- Don’t think, just be, just breathe. Don't try and analyse or understand the experience as it is occurring, just allow the experience to unfold and you can contemplate it later.

- Let yourself go, dissolve, surrender.

- Stay in the light as long as possible. Remain relaxed, focussed and symmetrical in the body.

- On returning to the body following the experience, avoid talking and remain still and silent, either lying down or in meditative posture. This will better allow one to integrate the experience.

- Some soft instrumental music may be advantageous for people coming back from a 5-MeO journey. It may also act to mask other sounds if partaking in an urban environment.

- If partaking in a ceremonial context with others and someone seems to be tensing up and having a hard time, some gentle soothing words of reassurance to relax and let go, or brief physical contact may prove helpful, along with some soothing music. If partaking in a ceremonial context with others, it would be recommended to keep such groups small, and only one person at a time should partake of the 5-MeO. If anyone appears to be having trouble breathing and looks like they may vomit, move the person onto their side in the recovery position, and vomiting will happen if it needs to. Generally if vomiting does occur, the experience will relax into the experience.

- Post experience, one may experience reactivations. These well reduce in frequency over time, and tend to occur during sleep or at times of deep relaxation. People may also experience reactivations during meditation or breathwork practice and when using psychedelics or cannabis. It is best to experience these reactivations with acceptance and a positive mindset. They will level off over time. Activities such as physical exercise, yoga, meditation, Tai chi, Qigong, dance, breathwork, floatation, shamanic drumming, time in nature and other forms of exertion and relaxation may help to ground this energy, while also keeping the flame of your experiential insights burning bright and aide with integration of the experience. Some people may find it valuable to connect with others who have been through the experience. There are a number of online communities and groups where such connection is possible, but the 5-Hive forum would come particularly recommended.

https://forums.5meodmt.org/


...do others here have any other advice or suggestions they would consider important to add here? Suggestions welcomed!

Thank you so much, Bancopuma.

A wonderful little bundle of great advice. Clear, concise and invaluable for voyages like myself, who have yet to travel with this Sacred teacher molecule. Does this compound typically lead the traveler to "the light"?

IME, journeying with any major psychedelic facilitates immersion within the Clear Light of The Void. My first direct contact with white-out experiences were on LSD, way back in 1978 and by 1980, almost every voyage with acid or mushrooms, lifted my conscious-awareness to the limitless effulgence of the white light. NN-DMT does this too but much, much faster!

That being said, there is a LOT to go through, visually and psychologically, to arrive at the interphase within the Light of Lights. In other words, it's quite a bit of work processing the myriad mind-sets popping up along the way, keeping a steady flight pattern which bypasses a seeming infinite number of parallel universes/planes/realities and also, choosing to range in contact & communication with entities and or alien intelligences or not to engage in communication. But at the very appex of each peak, the light always awaits my eager conjoining.

Now, this is partly because daily meditation, which incrementally tunes the focus and attention of the mediator but also, gradually awakens the dormant pineal gland or "third eye" (6th chakra) and eventually, the highest center within the brain, the Sahasrara or "the thousand petalled lotus" (7th chakra).

Don't get me wrong, I truly love riding the electric rainbow serpent and gazing into the kaleidoscopic visuals spiralling out of the chrysanthemum... but I hunger for the light that gives substance to said, "electric rainbow serpent". And you you recommend reading, Tryptamine Palace, prior to exploring such a powerful spirit ally?

Peace, RS

Thanks for the info!
That's a nice concise list that will help beginners, like myself.
I am going to try 5-Meo some time soon, and I was wondering what you think would be a good dose to start with? 2mg? Less?
Any advice on that would be appreciated.
Again, thanks.
This will help a lot of people.

One question from my side:

As I got aware, that there are basically two diametral opposite advices regarding dosage.

There is the one from e.g. Oroc: Dose high, and then lower the dose
And then there's the opposite advice from others: Dose low and then get higher

I do understand the reasoning from Oroc for his POV:
If you dose just below breakthrough, your ego is almost out, but not full and by that many will experience utter hell, as the ego is fighting as much as it can to stay together.
So their advice is dose high enough. If you get a whiteout, that's not really a problem. Dose lower next time.

I would be very interested what you think about this topic.
E.g. as I read those using "professionally" toad medicine also usually dose pretty high. They usually go for 100mg (which is 15mg+ of 5-MeO-DMT).

Happy to share peeps, I hope it may be helpful to those new to this molecule.

Rising Spirit, I would say 5-MeO-DMT is the most reliable and consistent deliverer of one to the white light/void of all the psychedelics; it seems to provide a fairly direct hotline in fact to this state for many with sufficient dosage. While there is a little overlap between 5-MeO and N,N, they are much more different than they are alike in my experience. One really profound difference between them for me, is that with a good dose of DMT, I am an observer of what is unfolding, where as with 5-MeO there is no duality, and I am part of what is unfolding. I also get the impression...more so than with N,N-DMT...that one's consciousness based practices in their sober waking life, be that meditation, yoga, Tai Chi, Qigong etc., will perhaps allow one to get more out of the experience, and allow one to integrate the experience better.

It's interesting what you are saying about the white light experiences cropping up reliably in your experiences after a certain point. I've read numerous reports from people who have used 5-MeO and found that their psychedelic experiences (and those with cannabis) are much deeper for some time following their experience.

Rising Spirit, from your words here I will be fascinated to hear what you make of the 5-MeO experience, given your experiential background in meditation. If and when you get to experience it, I do hope you will share your account here, if you feel so inclined. And I will be intrigued to hear any insights you may have on how you think it affects your subsequent meditation practice, following the experience. And yes I recently finished reading James Oroc's Tryptamine Palace and very much enjoyed it, I can recommend it highly, makes for a thought provoking and mind expanding read. I don't think it's a necessary experiential pre-requisite, but I would definitely consider it good reading for any 5-MeOnaut, prospective or otherwise. I re-read some of it as well recently following my second Bufo session this year, and it helped me with integration (and contemplation). I personally resonated with, or was intrigued by, Oroc's perspective...prior to his life changing first encounter with 5-MeO, he was a cynical (and content) atheist (as well as seasoned psychonaut) and this all changed dramatically after this experience. His musings on consciousness, and his attempts to formulate a model for how he thinks it all works via quantum physics made for fascinating reading. When a lot of authors try and link consciousness to quantum physics it is more of than not poorly done, with new age waffle potential high. But Oroc managed to remain rational and grounded while being lofty at the same time...he's definitely my favourite high profile 5-MeOnaut I've so far encountered.

AcidShard, no worries, I hope it will be helpful. By all means start off with 2mg and see how you go. I think with 5mg you'd be fine. But a cautious approach is definitely wise I think with dosing, individual sensitivities vary, and 5-MeO is a great deal more potent and a step up in power when compared to N,N-DMT. Then one can gradually work up their dosage, 1/2mg at a time as they please. Some advice on accurate dosing is in the linked thread below.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=75488

I had an experience recently with 6-8mg, with what remained of my 5-MeO freebase after weighing the samples described in the above thread, and I found vaping technique makes a big difference. I think my two Bufo experiences have trained me up well in terms of technique...with a new glass lollipop pipe, I heated the pipe using a gas hob on medium heat, waited a few seconds until the 5-MeO was visibly vapourising, and then I took a long, slow breathe, and I held it in. Effects were spectacular, and unexpectedly powerful for the dosage I used. So technique is important with respect to dosage too.

Interesting point Aum_Shanti. It seems idiosyncratic responses to 5-MeO vary widely. Oroc is definitely all about the release dose experience (as is Martin Ball), but in the more recent edition of his book, Oroc is more cautious with dosage advice, and in his appendices cites cases of negative responses to 5-MeO, with one (detailed in the Entheogen Review) of a female psychonaut who experienced prolonged negative effects with an experience of 5-MeO. This was psychological, it was more of an atypical physical response, and this seems to vary for people. So while I do get the point regarding the "dreaded underdose" where one's ego is still hanging on by a thread and getting in the way of the experience, I do think it would be wise to have a few sub-breakthrough experiences to see how you physically, as well as psychologically respond to the compound. Individual physical reactions to 5-MeO in particular vary more than they do with N,N-DMT, sensitivities do seem to vary more in this respect so it is wise I think to gauge one's own sensitivity before diving right into the deep end. I know of one guy in the US who is active in 5-MeO research who is very pro therapeutic use of sub-breakthrough 5-MeO dosages...he thinks such experiences may have therapeutic effects distinct from the full release dose experience. He also said one of his contacts has got a lot out of sub-breakthrough doses, while he struggled with the higher release dose experiences. This same friend, whose insights on this area I value, also thinks that gaining experiential experience with smaller sub-breakthrough 5-MeO doses can help prepare one for a full release dose experience.

I can 100% vote for that.
I now tried different ways. But the first time I used a cup atomizer made a huge enormous difference. Much stronger for the same amount.

Edit:
@Bancopuma:
What "sub-breakthrough" doses do they use for that?
E.g. up to 6-7mg I see no problem. I think what Oroc means is avoiding the dosages just sub threshold breakthrough. So probably around 10mg for most people.
As I understood it: Basically either go well below that for a low dose, or go well above that for a release.

I personally think "easy" dosages around 3-4mg are great for just opening your energy channels. You will feel so much "opened" the next few days.

I also thought about maybe first using around 3-4mg, to open the channels (clear the resistance) and then maybe 30 mins later go for full.
Anyone ever tested something like that, if it is smoother that way?

Right on Banco, gracias. I feel that 5 is in a class of its own. While I feel that all should be respected, most others can be used in a recreational context, even n,n dmt ( by some folks). However, 5 is no toy. I feel that it should not even be approached unless one is experienced with not only psychs, but life itself as well.

As for the dosage question, for most others in in the start low school of thought, but with 5 I feel the opposite, that one should not skirt the potential, but dive fully into the void.

This means really nothing less than experiencing ones own death, the implications and consequences are similarly powerful. The potent ability of this drug to transform ones entire being cannot be overstated.

Hey null24,

No worries, and yes I agree completely. It wasn't until experiencing 5-MeO in a release dose context this year that I could directly comprehend the truly awesome power of this substance. And in that respect it requires more cautious handling. I definitely feel it is the mostly deeply affecting of all the psychedelics, there is a totality to its effect that makes it unique in my experience. Even for a seasoned psychonaut this is some really deep water territory and should not be entered unto lightly.

I hear you regarding the dosage, and going straight for the breakthrough, this is an approach echoed by James Oroc and Martin Ball. One way in which 5-MeO differs from N,N-DMT is it's physical safety profile...idiosyncratic reactions to it seem to vary, so it might be wise to have a low dose tester just to see how one's system responds to it. In James Oroc's book Tryptamine Palace he has a good chapter in the appendices devoted to negative reactions to 5-MeO, and he links an account published in The Entheogen Review where an intelligent and experienced female psychonaut smoked 20mg and suffered prolonged negative reactions to it for eight weeks. This wasn't just a psychological reaction, there were physical issues too. It seems to me there are variations in how one's physical system responds to 5-MeO, my guess would be it has something to do with variations in enzyme metabolism. So in the interests of safety, it might be wise to have a smaller test dose to see how one's system responds, before diving into the deep end.

Hey Aum_Shanti,

The cup atomizer approach sounds interesting, I'll do some research. But yes my recent powerful experience with such little material (due to effective technique) made it even more apparent to me one needs to take care when dosing with 5-MeO.

I think I was wrong really to refer to the low level therapeutic dosages my friend is working with as "sub-breakthrough"...they are lower level than this (or sub-threshold breakthrough). My friend in the US recommends dosages of 2-5mg insufflated or 3-7mg rectal. Around 5mg vaporized could work as well, but lower dosages as you state can also be effective. He doesn't recommend vaporization for low level therapeutic work, and his preferred ROA of choice is IM injection, with dosages of 1.5-4mg recommended for low level therapeutic work, while 5-10mg is deep water, breakthrough territory.

Your idea about a small dose followed up by a breakthrough dose is interesting. I know some people have worked with 5-MeO in a consecutive manner, say three sessions back to back, and from the very few reports I've read, it sounds like the later sessions can be smoother than the first one. So it sounds like it could be an interesting approach...others have found some yoga practice, particularly some pranayama breathing prior to taking the plunge can prepare one well, aiding one in witnessing and integrating the experience. A low dose session and some pranayama prior to a breakthrough dose sounds like it could make a great preparation, something to be looked into further I think.

Yes, I probably should've made those points about physical safety in regards to dosing. I'm not trying to be reckless in suggesting one goes big with this one. Your suggestion of testing waters may be a good one.

To this day, I honestly do not know if the sensation of feeling my heart chug to a stop and breathing out my last before entering the tunnel to the void was real or not. I did IV around 20mg as a 120 lb male, idk. I have heard the stories about it having a lethality that is very real. Again, it I no toy.

I guess I suggest large breakthrough doses because I don't see how it could fall into the hands of one unprepared, even tho that is exactly what happened to me. Ugh, unprepared but certainly ready...

Interesting null24, that is quite a dose!! As psychedelics go, 5-MeO is quite atypical I think, and the experiences it can induce at release/OBE dose levels seem to more closely resemble near death experiences than classical psychedelic experiences. To me, based on what you've just said, it sounds like you experienced something very much akin to an NDE. I am going to give a talk at psychedelic conference Breaking Convention at the end of June, and for part of this I will be comparing the effects of psychedelic induced mystical experiences and NDE's in terms of after effects and personality changes. There is a fair amount of overlap between them, but the life changes brought about by NDE's on the whole tend to be more comprehensive, more deeply affecting and more lasting.

The similarities/differences between psychedelics and NDEs is very interesting!

Rather than go off on a tangent in this thread, I started a new one here