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[ANOTHER NEW Update 11th Apr '17] Pictures of my Loph fruits (harvested! - photo's added!) Options
 
downwardsfromzero
#1 Posted : 2/23/2017 8:39:17 PM

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While checking over my cactus collection recently, to my surprise there were a couple of little pink fruits forming on two of the cacti. I've seen Loph fruits before but my specimens had finished flowering in September and I removed the last fruit in October. It would seem that the October fruit was from flowering earlier in the season. The Lophs are but a relatively recent addition to my collection so they are still teaching me their ways.

I looked again and saw that one of the specimens actually had two fruit developing. Now I look forward to seeing how many seeds they will produce Love

Looking at the second picture, it seems there was a beetle-like inhabitant photo-bombing the show! Hopefully it is harmless but I'll be keeping a closer eye on things having seen this.
downwardsfromzero attached the following image(s):
Lophfruit1.JPG (3,236kb) downloaded 254 time(s).
Lophfruit2.JPG (3,146kb) downloaded 251 time(s).
Lophfruit3.JPG (3,162kb) downloaded 253 time(s).
Lophfruit4.JPG (3,918kb) downloaded 252 time(s).
Lophfruit5.JPG (3,938kb) downloaded 252 time(s).




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 

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entheogenic-gnosis
#2 Posted : 2/24/2017 2:33:33 PM
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Nice.

Lophophora Williamsii var. texana?

Lophophora Williamsii var. Menchaca?

-eg

 
Ulim
#3 Posted : 2/24/2017 3:49:26 PM

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Gone-and-Back
#4 Posted : 2/24/2017 3:52:12 PM
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So thats where the seeds come from? I have never seen a cacti produce flowers or fruit in person, just pictures of flowers.

I cant wait for the day that my bridgesii decides to flower. I dont know how old the cutting was when I received it, but I have been growing it for two years now and have not had any flowers yet. It does put out two pups each year though, so I am pretty happy with that.

I need to get me a loph though. Wish they were not illegal in the states. Would be cool to just walk into a garden store and purchase them like you can trichs.
Everything published by Gone-and-Back are the mad rantings and ravings of a mind who yearns to be free and thinks he knows what he is talking about. However, these are just delusions made to feel that freedom, because that freedom will never come. Any experiments done are purely figments of the imagination, and are falsified to the highest degree. Nothing should be taken seriously from a crazy mans mind.
 
downwardsfromzero
#5 Posted : 2/24/2017 6:00:13 PM

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The fruits will dry out and shrivel up in due course, it was 36°C on my windowsill this afternoon! It was very exciting the first time I found seeds in my lophs. Sometimes the shrivelled remnants of the fruit falls off completely and the seeds are left hidden in the fuzzy tufts (what is the technical name for them?)

I've had various trichs for quite some time now but none has flowered as yet, probably because I keep taking cuttings when they get nearly big enough to flower.

I was delighted to find my lophs at a cactus nursery in the UK, where they are legal unless you try to eat them Confused




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#6 Posted : 2/25/2017 3:09:08 PM
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Gone-and-Back wrote:
So thats where the seeds come from? I have never seen a cacti produce flowers or fruit in person, just pictures of flowers.

I cant wait for the day that my bridgesii decides to flower. I dont know how old the cutting was when I received it, but I have been growing it for two years now and have not had any flowers yet. It does put out two pups each year though, so I am pretty happy with that.

I need to get me a loph though. Wish they were not illegal in the states. Would be cool to just walk into a garden store and purchase them like you can trichs.


These cacti can be easily obtained in the US, maybe not entirely legally, but very easily.

If you want legal rights there are options as well...

In Colorado the law regarding native American church membership is "racially neutral"

Quote:
For the reasons set out in this Memorandum Opinion and Order, the Court holds that, pursuant to 21 C.F.R. § 1307.31 (1990), the classification of peyote as a Schedule I controlled substance, see 21 U.S.C. § 812(c), Schedule I(c)(12), does not apply to the importation, possession or use of peyote for bonafide ceremonial use by members of the Native American Church, regardless of race. PUBLIC LAW 103-344 [H.R. 4230]; October 6, 1994
http://thesingingstone.c...ally-neutral-regulation/


Quote:
Non-Indian member of Native American church was indicted for importing peyote through mail and possessing it with intent to distribute. He moved to dismiss. The District Court, Burciaga, Chief Judge, held that: (1) permitting Indians' nondrug use of peyote in bona fide religious ceremonies of Native American church, but prohibiting such use by non- Indians, would violate free exercise and equal protection clauses; (2) compelling interest test applied to free exercise challenge to prosecution of non-Indian member, and (3) prosecution would violate free exercise clause. Motions granted.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg27.htm


Also, You can legally provide to the church if you register, this does not mean you are a church member, it means you are providing for them, this can be done entirely legally, but you have to jump through some hoops and spend some money....

Any way, as for these laws in the states, its a mess, and it's a joke...our constitution's first amendment protects religious freedom...
Quote:
The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion -Wikipedia


If your "free exercise of religion" entails consumption of sacraments, than the government has no right to intervene, which makes all of this "legal" nonsense that much more frustrating, because constitutionally we are already guaranteed the right to possess and consume these entheogens...

You guys in the UK are lucky, I mean where I live there is legal recreational cannabis, but other than that the UK seems to have much more relaxed drug laws...if the US would treat lophophora in the manner which they treat trichocereus it could even be a logical solution (in the US trichocereus cacti are legal as ornament, and remain legal unless you intend to consume them)

So, downward, you don't know what variety of lophophora williamsii you have? It really looks like a Lophophora Williamsii var. texensis, however these varieties are vastly similar, and mist can not detect the subtle differences through photograph.


Quote:
there are typically two forms of Lophophora Williamsii showing themselves to be quite distinct from each other. They are called, L. Williamsii “southern type” (with its centre at Entronque Huizache), and L. Williamsii “northern type” (centered around Saltillo, Coahuila).
The “southern type” centered around Huizache does not have a single root, but instead, individual sprouts or buds will develop their own tuberous roots, becoming quite independent of the mother plant. This is in sharp contrast to the growth strategy of the other forms.

In comparison to the so-called northern type, the L. Williamsii from Huizache is always heterogamous. Moreover, they differ in the structure of the flower, whose style is longer and the white stigma is much smaller than the northern form resembling that of L.Diffusa.

The northern form (from Saltillo, Coahuila), is extremely resistant to unfavourable conditions of drought, cold, water, pests and fungi, compared to the other varieties and is always autogamous (self pollinating). The flowers are robust with broad rounded petals of a very pale pink to white color, and bear a prominent pink midstripe, growing to between 1 and 2.2cm in diameter. The tube is short, the style is short and white, and the stigma is fleshy and pink-tinted. The stamens are white, reaching beyond the stigma, and the anthers are yellow to orange. Typically the plants flower from March through September, but as I have learned if the proper conditions are met the plant will flower all year long. Peyote flowers, in contrast to those of other cactus genera, have naked ovaries, or the absence of scales on the ovary wall – a character shared with the flowers of many other cacti. In Lophophora, all floral parts are borne on the perianth tube above the ovule-containing cavity.

One curious and under-reported observation is that these cacti have thigmotactic anthers. This means that as its anthers are touched they curl over, depositing their pollen. This movement can be seen by gently poking the anthers of an open Lophophora flower. Thus one of the slowest growing plants in the world makes one of the fastest plant movements.

Pollen of Lophophora is highly variable. Pollen of the Dicotyledonae tend to have three apertures. Peyote pollen varies greatly in aperture number, the northern population having 0 to 18 and the southern population 0 to 6. The grains are spherical, polyporate, with reticular exine bearing small spicules, and 40 to 53 micrometers in diameter. The carrying numbers of colpae or apertures produce about twelve different geometric shapes. Such a variety from a single species or even population is rare in flowering plants.

The pink cylindrical fruits develop and remain hidden in the apical wool for about a year (in my personal experience, given proper conditions fruits will appear in three to four months from flowering); then elongate rapidly at maturity to protrude above the woolly centre of the plant. The fruits of Lophophora are similar to those of Obregonia in that usually only the upper half contains seeds, whereas Ariocarpus fruits are completely filled with seeds. These seeds are black and verrocuse (warty), with a large, flattened, whitish hilum, about 1 mm. in diameter. http://magicactus.com/description.html#fricii


-eg
 
Gone-and-Back
#7 Posted : 2/25/2017 7:45:22 PM
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There is also the problem of finding someone willing to send the peyote. Most people, such as myself, are under the impression its illegal unless you belong to a native american tribe. I know that in Arizona there is a church that you can visit and pay a fee in order to go onto their sacred land and they give you peyote to consume. Peyote Way Church of God or something like that.

I have always known of the religious use defense, but I am always skeptical that it would actually hold up in court. Its nice to know that is how its viewed in colorado though, as that is one of the places I may move to in the next couple years.

How about washington state and Oregon, do they follow the same things if your a member of the NAC?

I have often thought of becoming of member of the NAC, but I dont know if that would really protect me legally with anything such as cannabis and entheogens here in my home state. Especially since I have no native american ancestry that I know of.
Everything published by Gone-and-Back are the mad rantings and ravings of a mind who yearns to be free and thinks he knows what he is talking about. However, these are just delusions made to feel that freedom, because that freedom will never come. Any experiments done are purely figments of the imagination, and are falsified to the highest degree. Nothing should be taken seriously from a crazy mans mind.
 
downwardsfromzero
#8 Posted : 2/25/2017 11:41:19 PM

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^Well, it would be terribly inconvenient if somebody had accidentally mislabelled Lophophora seeds as some other species, apparently they germinate as easily as any other species as well. There you would be thinking they were some perfectly legal plant and suddenly you find you're in possession of a schedule 1 controlled substance - bummer!


(Making any plant illegal is utterly reprehensible.)

So I've just inspected my cacti and caught the little critter shown in a couple of the photo's along with some other little mite. Sadly, they didn't survive the process but I have a feeling they're not likely to be beneficial to the fruit.

It's now 10°C on my windowsill and it's raining outside. The hairs on the Lophs seem to be significantly hygroscopic. I suppose this would make sense for nocturnal water collection. Presumably other, spined cacti can collect significant amounts of dew overnight. I've never been to the desert but this seems like a plausible intuitive insight (and I'm sure it's not a new one, just new to me).




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Gone-and-Back
#9 Posted : 2/26/2017 5:40:51 PM
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Thats a good idea Big grin
Everything published by Gone-and-Back are the mad rantings and ravings of a mind who yearns to be free and thinks he knows what he is talking about. However, these are just delusions made to feel that freedom, because that freedom will never come. Any experiments done are purely figments of the imagination, and are falsified to the highest degree. Nothing should be taken seriously from a crazy mans mind.
 
downwardsfromzero
#10 Posted : 2/26/2017 9:53:58 PM

Boundary condition

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Given the will, finding Loph seeds should not present anyone any difficulties.

entheogenic-gnosis wrote:

Lophophora Williamsii var. texana?

Lophophora Williamsii var. Menchaca?


Here are photo's of my other specimens, currently without fruit although I've harvested seeds from (most of) them before.

First, one of the same variety as before.
Then one of what looks to be a different variety.
Then two different caespitosa specimens.

Sorry, some of the pictures came out less well than they could have done!
downwardsfromzero attached the following image(s):
Lophvar1.JPG (3,353kb) downloaded 168 time(s).
Lophvar2.JPG (2,783kb) downloaded 167 time(s).
Lophcaespit1.JPG (2,616kb) downloaded 160 time(s).
Lophcaespit2.JPG (3,506kb) downloaded 160 time(s).




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#11 Posted : 2/28/2017 11:41:47 AM
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Gone-and-Back wrote:
There is also the problem of finding someone willing to send the peyote. Most people, such as myself, are under the impression its illegal unless you belong to a native american tribe. I know that in Arizona there is a church that you can visit and pay a fee in order to go onto their sacred land and they give you peyote to consume. Peyote Way Church of God or something like that.

I have always known of the religious use defense, but I am always skeptical that it would actually hold up in court. Its nice to know that is how its viewed in colorado though, as that is one of the places I may move to in the next couple years.

How about washington state and Oregon, do they follow the same things if your a member of the NAC?

I have often thought of becoming of member of the NAC, but I dont know if that would really protect me legally with anything such as cannabis and entheogens here in my home state. Especially since I have no native american ancestry that I know of.


Honestly, you do not need to look very hard to find a loph. In the USA, talk of sourcing is not allowed, so I can not be more specific than that, but trust me, if you look, you will find your cacti.

Im not sure about Washington or Oregon, you must check and see if your state laws are "racially neutral" when it comes to native churches. Though Oregon does have some rather relaxed laws regarding psychedelics, if you are going to get caught with a psychedelic in the US, Oregon would be one of the best states to do it in...Psilocybe azurescens grows in that area, I remember when paul staments first started heavily publishing on the species, he gives you fairly exact locations for finding these things, one of the most potent psilocybin fungi known.

Any way, religious defense is only valid for NAC members, and only seems to protect lophophora use (as far as I know). I've read about some controversy regarding these churches and ayahuasca, but do not know what the outcome was. To become a member you apply online, you pay a fine, and get a church membership card, there's a little more to it than that, and I'm sure every place works differently, but all and all, it's definantly an option.

Though if you just want a cactus or two, just order them, and stay quite about it, no need to join a church.

-eg

 
entheogenic-gnosis
#12 Posted : 2/28/2017 11:52:35 AM
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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Given the will, finding Loph seeds should not present anyone any difficulties.

entheogenic-gnosis wrote:

Lophophora Williamsii var. texana?

Lophophora Williamsii var. Menchaca?


Here are photo's of my other specimens, currently without fruit although I've harvested seeds from (most of) them before.

First, one of the same variety as before.
Then one of what looks to be a different variety.
Then two different caespitosa specimens.

Sorry, some of the pictures came out less well than they could have done!


Nice, they all look to have decent age and size, your ceaspitose lophs have a healthy glaucous Gray/blue tone, reminds me of mescaline in a strange synesthesia type sense, that color of cacti just makes me think of hallucination...

Can't tell what variety they are, as many loph varieties are quite similar, the description in my early post of the "northern" and "southern" peyote types should help you make a determination...regardless, nice cacti.

-eg
 
downwardsfromzero
#13 Posted : 3/10/2017 7:18:09 PM

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It was sunny today and a third cactus seems to have just popped a fruit out. I could swear it wasn't there yesterday!
downwardsfromzero attached the following image(s):
IMG_6946.JPG (3,527kb) downloaded 118 time(s).
IMG_6948.JPG (4,069kb) downloaded 119 time(s).
IMG_6950.JPG (3,124kb) downloaded 117 time(s).
IMG_6952.JPG (3,783kb) downloaded 117 time(s).




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
smoothmonkey
#14 Posted : 3/14/2017 9:19:56 PM

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Love
असतो मा सद्गमय ।
तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय ।
मृत्योर्मा अमृतं गमय ।
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#15 Posted : 3/22/2017 2:10:58 PM
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Nice.

-eg
 
downwardsfromzero
#16 Posted : 4/2/2017 2:08:26 AM

Boundary condition

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The fruits slowly dried up.

They were harvested yesterday (middle photo - to be replaced by better quality shot presently!).

One of the specimens has a flower bud forming.
downwardsfromzero attached the following image(s):
IMG_6962.JPG (2,769kb) downloaded 78 time(s).
IMG_6961.JPG (3,337kb) downloaded 78 time(s).
IMG_6965.JPG (2,814kb) downloaded 78 time(s).
IMG_6970.JPG (3,526kb) downloaded 78 time(s).
IMG_7007.JPG (3,100kb) downloaded 78 time(s).




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#17 Posted : 4/3/2017 1:33:34 PM
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Very interesting!


Quote:
The pink cylindrical fruits develop and remain hidden in the apical wool for about a year (in my personal experience, given proper conditions fruits will appear in three to four months from flowering); then elongate rapidly at maturity to protrude above the woolly centre of the plant. The fruits of Lophophora are similar to those of Obregonia in that usually only the upper half contains seeds, whereas Ariocarpus fruits are completely filled with seeds. These seeds are black and verrocuse (warty), with a large, flattened, whitish hilum, about 1 mm. in diameter.
http://www.magicactus.com/description.html


Looks like the upper half of the seed pod should contain the majority of the seeds, and since lophs pollinate themselves, seeds could be present.

Cool.

-eg
 
downwardsfromzero
#18 Posted : 4/3/2017 3:28:58 PM

Boundary condition

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Seeds are definitely present, more pics soon - two flower buds are peeping out from one of my specimens Love




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
downwardsfromzero
#19 Posted : 4/10/2017 10:24:14 PM

Boundary condition

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Flower opened at the weekend! And another plant has a big fat bud waiting for more sunshine.

Posting pics soon, when I remember where I left the camera.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#20 Posted : 4/11/2017 2:05:16 PM
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I have had some of my lophs for over 5 years, and I still have not seen them flower...

This is very interesting in that regard.

Quote:



Propagation of Lophophora

Propagation is through seed, or cuttings which can be accelerated by grafting.
In the wild, peyote will take three to fifteen years before reaching a point of flowering maturity. If conditions are controlled to that of optimum, these same plants can grow to a point of flowering maturity within two to three years or less. And if one wishes to really speed up the process of growing mature plants from seed, then grafting is the way to go. If one starts out by grafting one, two, or three month old seedling, it is possible to get flowers that produce viable seed about six months later.

How do I know? From personal experience. In fact, I have personally been able to achieve a flowering plant from seed by grafting within seven months of planting the seed. The same plant put out its first fruit with seed by its tenth month. For those that are a little nervous to try their hand at grafting or just prefer a hard grown plant from seed I also have good news. When proper conditions are offered one can have a plant flowering within as little as one year and a half, just as in the picture you see here below. This batch of Lophophora Williamsii was planted December 14th 2006, and put out its first flower by June 11th 2008. If I can do this, I am sure that anyone with the desire to grow such a beautiful plant can too... and that means you!!
http://www.magicactus.com/propagation.html


...had I provided proper flowering/seeding conditions this would not have been the case, and I could have induced seeding much sooner.

...any way, very interesting.

-eg
 
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