dreamer042 wrote:entheogenic-gnosis wrote:I often get criticism for not being "inclusive" when it comes to plant psychedelia...
This thread ,near the end, between posts 30 and 33 (as well as in other places through out the thread), actually touches on the pros and cons of attempting to commodify Entheogenic plants and incorporate them into a capitalist model.
Obviously I am in bitter opposition of attempting to commodify Entheogenic plants and incorporate them into a capitalist model, and while some misinterpret this as being "anti-modern", sanctimonious or unwilling to be inclusive, in reality it stems from deep concern for these plants and the nature that produces them.
I think in the first world we should be trying to break the mis-held belief that plant derived compounds are somehow superior or "safer" than synthetic compounds. Through chemistry we could adequately meet the modern demand for the Entheogenic experience without placing any plants or environments into harms way.
-eg
This actually runs into the exact same issues. There are no safety protocols in place nor any kind of regulatory oversight in the production of "illicit" synthetic compounds. While synthetics would make a lot of sense in a legal and regulated market with regulatory boards and OSHA standards, at this point the global RC trade (and MDMA/LSD/etc trade) is just as big a part of the ecological crisis as the tourism and poaching industries.
To beat the old dead horse I'm always beating, the most ethical choice for the entheogenic explorer is take up gardening.
I agree, gardening is the answer...
However, we must be wise in this endeavour as well...
Quote:“In the 60’s, we thought that all that had to happen was that everybody would take LSD and the obvious right things to do would be done. And we expected no opposition to this because its rightness was so obvious. We didn’t realize that every righteous crusade in history has marched into the waiting jaws of its oppressors. -terence McKenna
These compounds, these experiences, are perceived as threats by many, for many reasons, the last thing wanted is to bring these plants to the attention of those who will take measures to destroy them...
Leary once said "LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people who have NOT taken it.”
Quote:
TM: Well, I think it's more complicated than a prejudice. It's a prejudice born of respect, because most people sense that these compounds probably actually do what their adherents claim they do. It's possible to see the whole human growth movement of the 1970s as a wish to continue the inward quest without having to put yourself on the line the way you had to when you took 250 gamma of LSD. And, I think all these other methods are efficacious, but I think it's the sheer power of the hallucinogens that puts people off. you either love them or you hate them, and that's because they dissolve worldviews, and if you like the experience of having your entire ontological structure disappear out from under you, if you think that's a thrill, you'll probably love psychedelics.
On the other hand, for some people, that's the most horrible thing they can possibly imagine. They navigate reality through various form of faith, and I think that with the psychedelics, the doors of perception are cleansed and you see very, very deeply. I spent time in India, and I would always go to the local Sadhus of great reputation, and I met many people who possessed, what I call wise-old-man wisdom but wise-old-man wisdom is a kind of Tao of how to live. It has nothing to say about these dimensions that the psychedelics reveal and, for that you have to go to places where hallucinogenic shamanism is practiced, specifically, the Amazon Basin. And, there you discover that beyond simply the wisdom of how to live in ordinary reality, there is a gnosis of how to navigate in extraordinary reality. And, this reality is so extraordinary that we cannot approach what these people are doing with any degree of smugness, because the frank fact of the matter is we have no viable theory of what mind is either. The beliefs of the Witoto shaman and the beliefs of a, uh, Princeton phenomenologist have an equal change of being correct, and there are no arbiters of who is right.
So, it's the power of these things, the fact that here is something we have not assimilated. We have been to the moon, we have charted the depths of the oceans, the heart of the atom, but we have a fear of looking inward to ourselves because we sense that here's where all the contradictions flow together and the same prejudice against psychoanalysis that characterized the 20s and 30s, when it was thought to be superfluous or some kind of fad attends the psychedelics now. It's because it touches a very sensitive nerve; it touches the issue of the nature of man, and people are uncomfortable with this or some people are uncomfortable with this. -terence McKenna
And for the reasons articulated above we must be very cautious and mindful as to how we proceed with these things...
(You could replace "acid" with any entheogen and this statement would still ring true)
Quote:I believe that with the advent of acid, we discovered a new way to think, and it has to do with piecing together new thoughts in your mind. Why is it that people think it’s so evil? What is it about it that scares people so deeply, even the guy that invented it, what is it?
Because they’re afraid that there’s more to reality than they have confronted. That there are doors that they’re afraid to go in, and they don’t want us to go in there either, because if we go in we might learn something that they don’t know. And that makes us a little out of their control. – Ken kesey Quoted in the BBC documentary, ‘The Beyond Within: The Rise and Fall of LSD,’ 1987
...it's a complex issue, with many facets, which is difficult to sort out...
Quote:'You have to understand. Most people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured and so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.' -morpheus; the matrix
I think we need to be very mindful of potential threats in our endeavours.
Quote:the I Ching says you never confront evil directly, because when it is named it sharpens it weapons and it learns to defend itself. So, what is called for is this sideways attack through hyperspace. I think it was Tim Leary who said we should become ecological secret agents -terence McKenna
Ultimately, I think cultivation of these plants is the best option. Though I feel there is much potential in the way of synthetics as well.
I think going to these plants natural environments and planting as many of them as possible is a good option, if an entheogen will naturally grow in an area, then by all means spread as many seeds as you can, and hope that humans won't interfere...I do this quite a bit, if I find an area where I can grow an entheogen (be mindful that you are not introducing invasive species, or harming eco-systems) I will plant as many seeds and clones as I can.
Any way, It's a very complex issue, and I've only scratched the surface, however for the sake of brevity and organization I'll leave this where it's at.
When it comes to synthetics, I think you are correct dreamer, even Leary, a man credited with irresponsible LSD promotion understood this:
Quote:Timothy Leary, who realized that impurities were a threat to the spreading psychedelic revolution, uttered prophetic words of warning at a Senate committee hearing in 1966, in exchange with Teddy Kennedy:
Senator Kennedy of Massachusetts: "What is it in the quality that you are frightened about?"
Dr. Leary: "We do not want amateur or black-market sale or distribution of LSD."
Senator Kennedy: "Why not?"
Dr. Leary: "Or the barbiturates or liquor. When you buy a bottle of liquor-"
Senator Kennedy: "This is not responsive. As to LSD, why do you not want it?"
Dr. Leary: "On possession?"
Senator Kennedy: "Why do you not want the indiscriminate manufacture and distribution? Is it because it is dangerous?"
Dr. Leary: "Because you do not know what you are getting..."
Despite Leary's warning, LSD was made illegal on October 16, 1966.
https://erowid.org/chemi.../lsd/lsd_writings1.shtml If the modern world wants to incorporate entheogens into a commoditized, capitalist model, than synthetics could be a suitable solution, of coarse this would have to be done within the realms which you previously specified...
When people say I'm not "inclusive" when it comes to entheogens, what does that even mean?
-eg