[quote:135764c3fd="El Ka Bong"]New Thread Topic ! - Salvia soaked in dmt..!? holy sheet ! .. has it been done by any of us already ..? Let's hear the report then, ... asap..![/quote:135764c3fd] A FRIEND (seriously) took a big rip of dmt and salvia from a bong last night and texted later in the night to tell me thankyou that it changed his life. Anyone else ever try this? Reports?

Oh yah. Salvie and DMT are so nice together. They mellow each other out while potentiating each other. Marriage made in heaven.

You guys are serious? I dont have half the balls to do this. Both substances are so extreme that the two of them at once. Ouch. how it is like?

Why not Freddy? Niether Sally or Demetri hurt you. If you like them individualy, together it could be a marraige made in heaven. I dont think there would be anything to be cautious about. Before you mistake the above for some kind of reckless brovado, I do have somthing admit. That is, I totally hate Sally. It scares me a great deal, I always revert to a lost and lonley little infant wanting my Mummy. It always hits me like that and I don't need to put myself through that again and again. I don't want Sally to marr my hyperspace travels. Actually as I write this I am starting to warm to the idea. The whole point of what I do is to explore and find new things, to get as many different experiances as I can. Somthings you find you like and do again somthings you decide you'll never do again. Shit! Now I really am curious. I'll write a report on this thread at sometime.

I'm not a big fan of salvia solo myself. DMT really seems to calm it down though while the salvia adds a nice body high.

I feel it would get a bit too freaky observing my body becoming part of the alien furniture! But i could be wrong i get on with salvia its a gentle flowing trip for me. Im realy curious now it could be totaly mind blowing and cleansing!

Ive read mixed reports on this, never had the salvia in a big way myself never worked extremeley for me, tho I did forget what I was but nothing like some reports ive read, read this the other day and thought it was quite funny, and interesting lol the ultimate head to head SALVIA vs DMT http://www.lavondyss.com/donut/j9.html

How is it with salvia, do you get some kind of a breakthrough like on DMT? Is it about having breakthrough like on DMT? I don't like low dose DMT, find it uncomfortable so I'm wandering if you can work your way up with salvia 'cause that doesn't work for me with DMT.

Yeah the same with salvia, low doses dont do much although they arent uncomfortable just disorientating. You can work your way up as there is a couple of levels of breakthrough. Have a look at www.sagewisdom.org A full level 4 breakthrough redefines the word weird!

Sally sells schizophrenia by the seashore. SWIM once smoked an entire vial of 20x extract, this was only due to the fact that all it was producing was laughter, sedation and a stoned-feeling. SWIM doesn't like being stoned, finds it reduces introspection. The result of this entire vial of 20x extract was momentary Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personalities - which is distinctly different from schizophrenia, actually), in other words, SWIM felt like a talking cartoon totem pole. That is, SWIM thought there were a large group of friends around and found that every time someone talked he switched into their first person perspective, SWIM was also totally unaware of his surroundings. SWIM thinks things whose effects on brain chemistry are not well studied are not preferable to traditional serotonin-antagonist entheogens. It is entirely possible that somewhere out there, an under-studied substance like Aunt Sally does indeed fit the old psychotomimetic model (the theory that proposed that hallucinogens approximated psychosis). SWIM has also seen a friend of his who regularly spent time with Sally end up having what looked like psychotic episodes on a couple occasions. SWIM thinks everyone should be wary of Sally and her shady nature.

SWIM thinks anyone of a unstable mind should also stay clear of ANY psycedelics.

Of course, DreaMTripper.... however SWIM was implying that what appeared to be psychotic episodes were actually the result of excessive get togethers with Sally. SWIM isn't saying that Sally makes people crazy or that she agitates psychotic disorders (which she probably does anyway, but regardless), he's just saying that her normal effects seem very akin to various forms of mental illness (unlike the effects of Sally's serotonin cousins). SWIM just wants people to be wary of something whose neurochemical effects are pretty much unknown and who has never been studied on animals or otherwise to see if it was a carcinogen/mutagen/or in some way toxic. SWIM would say the same thing about many of Shulgin's synthetics, although, at least their neurotransmitter effects are fully understood, unlike those of Sally.

I understand that there has been only a few studies regarding the neurotransmitter activity of salvinorum A on kappa opioid receptors. Such is far different from the knowledge we have of 5-HT antagonist psychedelics. Knowing simply that salvinorum A acts on kappa opioid receptors doesn't give any further knowledge of its effects body wide and actually suggests some negative things about it, mainly that it could be addictive. The 5-HT neurotransmitter system is the most well understood system in our neurology, obviously it is not fully understood but it is much moreso than the opioid system. 5-HT actually has the longest history of study and was, in fact, the first neurotransmitter scientists were able to understand (this mainly has to do with the fact that psychiatric/neurobiological studies were practically started by introduction of psychedelics into psychology... the fact that biological-effecting substances brought about such profound changes in the mind sparked a greater need to understand the biology of the brain, and studying the effects of psychedelics---meaning 5-HT entheogens---provided a path to understanding such). Where its interesting that they were able to locate the antagonist activity of salvinorum A, it doesn't mean that it is understood very well at all, I mean, that discovery doesn't even account for how it produces the sorts of hallucinations it does, as single, large dosages of other opioid antagonists do no produce similar effects. As for Shulgin, I do not fully trust his creations, but I trust them more than barely-studied plant materials, as at least there is a much greater understanding of how exactly they go about causing their effects. I am wary of some of his creations as they seem to more readily cause negative physical symptoms than some, more traditional tryptamines and phenethylamines, and unlike such traditional substances, they have yet to be properly tested on animals (or otherwise) to determine their toxicity, and whether or not they are carcinogenic or mutagenic (which is entirely possible considering other, well studied psychedelics are known to cause changes in gene expression, most notably, Ibogaine, whose effects on gene expression account a lot for its healing powers in regards to addiction). With Shulgin's work, the further the chemicals deviate in both their effects and structures from those substances who are well studied (N,N-DMT, LSD, Psilocin and Psilocybin, Bufotenine, 5-MeO-DMT, Mescaline, MDMA--which is actually not originally Shulgin's, but whose psychoactive properties were discovered by him) the less I trust the chemical... and as well, for probably just language reasons, I am much more wary of Shulgin chemicals that include the word "methamphetamine" then I am of others (I tend to trust those from TiHKAL more than those from PiHKAL). Although, the personal experiences of a FRIEND with specific Shulgin chemicals gives me an appreciation for those specific ones, or one actually, the Doc.

Oh wow! That amazing (regarding the LSD study). SWIM kind of figured from personal experience that LSD promoted neuroplasticity or at least staved off the effects of neuronal pruning and also its always seemed that users of such are more likely to be very enthusiastic about learning new things. I'd love to read that study. As for ibogaine, theres a multitude of studies dealing with its ability to heal a variety of types of addiction, most studies center around the big three addictive substances though, that is heroin, methamphetamines and cocaine. There's a bunch of stuff over at MAPS (www.maps.org), the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies about ibogaine and its potential...also, NIDA itself actually admitted to its usefulness for treatment of heroin addiction in a study done in the early 90s but they said they didn't have the funding to explore it further. Look around at NIDA and MAPS for some info, and as for a direct link to a specific study, here's one from erowid, its just an abstract/overview though: http://www.erowid.org/ch.../ibogaine_journal2.shtml P.S. In regards to the state of the government and of civilian organizations, I think this country would benefit tremendously if the DEA was replaced by Erowid and NIDA by MAPS. Lol, just thought I might through in some social commentary here at the end. P.S.S. Whereas Ibogaine's treatment of heroin, opiate painkiller, cocaine, methamphetamine, and nicotine addiction have been verified in studies, its theorized that Ibogaine, through its action in essentially resetting the the mesolimbic dopamine reward system of the brain, might be effective in treating a myriad of other things including: Alcoholism, eating disorders, and sexual paraphilias .... oh and the most amazing thing about ibogaine is that the treatment is 100% complete after 1-3 sessions and works for something like 95% of patients.... it wipes out the physical side effects of addiction and puts people in a mindset where they are likely to have life changing experiences that take care of the psychological aspects of the addiction. Oh and, I know this paragraph is losing its cohesion, but there was one study that showed that when persons being treated with opiate painkillers were given sub-psychedelic "maintenance" doses of ibogaine, they never developed a tolerance and never became addicted (so dosage increase over time was no longer necessary and the degrading mental effects of extended high-doses of opiates were totally avoided). P.S.S.S. (ha) I personally think that the only reason ibogaine is illegal in the first place is because of this. During the 60s and 70s ibogaine was barely used at all for recreation and on several occasions during that time period the CIA and FBI utilized addictive drugs to quell the pressure of race riots... Terrence McKenna discusses this in his book [i:6ee09081b8]Food of the Gods[/i:6ee09081b8]. .....If the illegal market for drugs was under my control I think I'd flood it with ibogaine and save all the addicts from a life of pain and suffering.

I cant imagine anyone getting addicted to salvia. Its just too...serious, with little recreational value. Stranger things have happened i suppose.

First off, I'd suggest SWIM should try the dpt... why? it is used regularly by a church in New York as their sacrament: http://en.wikipedia.org/..._of_the_True_Inner_Light ...so it probably has great spiritual potential. Next, here's the ibogaine study regarding gene expression: http://www.ibogaine.org/onaivi.html Ah, and now regarding the 5-HT system... I have to argue that is it indeed the most well understood neurotransmitter system as, regardless of the haphazard construction and effects of SSRIs and other antidepressants, look at how the psychiatric field deals with other systems. For example the dopamine and norepinephrine systems... I mean ADHD is still treated with amphetamines, which are horribly unhealthy and addictive... antipsychotics (which act on dopamine) cause all sorts of unsavory heart and vascular problems and cause stroke in the elderly. SSRI's don't cause much of anything but sexual dysfunction and weight gain. Oh and lets not forget, SSRIs are not the state-of-the-art treatments for 5-HT disorders, atypical antidepressants like Wellbutrin and Cymbalta are. With the 5-HT system, we're already on the third wave of treatments that are getting safer and safer and more specific each time we advance (started with MAOIs and tricyclics then moved to SSRIs and finally now to atypical antidepressants). With the dopamine system we're only on the second wave, the first was disgusting things like thorazine which not only acted on dopamine but also on GABA and ended up causing GABA-ergenic seizures (the same sort of seizures heavy alcoholics develop after long-term abuse).... today's dopamine drugs are just nasty and with ADHD treatments, they're actually still on the first wave, although there is the mostly ineffective Straterra (which actually operates only on norepinephrine). I didn't even mention the sorry state of the GABA system, which we pretty much have barely studied and all we really know is that GABA in excess makes you sleepy and happy... although its admitedly hard to understand the GABA system to due its relation to the extremely complex neurotransmitter system of sleep cycles. As for the opiod system, well, there hasn't even really been much of an effort to study it at all, I mean, we understand the action of opiates on the peripheral nervous system pretty damned well but the pain centers of the brain aren't very well studied at all. Oh and by the way, my called salvinorin A a kappa opiod antagonist was just a slip up, you're right in that it is an agonist and not an antagonist. As for 5-HT psychedelics, they are typically both antagonists and agonists, they bind to 5-HT receptor sites and remain there, blocking the re-uptake (antagonist) of serotonin but also stimulating the cell to produce more serotonin (agonist). By the way, I'd like to see where you might have read about salvinorin being used to treat opiod addiction because that seems to me to not be very different from methadone treatments for heroin addiction, in other words, I don't see how effective treating opioid receptor agonist addiction with an opioid receptor agonist could be. Hmm, on a side note, it'd be interesting to see it opioid painkillers potentiate the effects of salvia (know any painkiller addicts? lol just kidding, wow thats cold).... As for AMT, the effects your experience probably had to do with the frequency of which you were taking it..... oh and despite what people think, marijuana and psychedelics don't mix well, personally I think the combination leads to flashbacks as marijuana itself re-emerges with exercise... that is, since un-metabolized THC from sessions of smoking extremely large amounts of weed get stored in your fat cells, during periods of heavy aerobic exercise following such use, THC can be released into your system. Although, I don't trust marijuana much anyway... its a little shifty with its sticking around for month on end O.o, lol. But that's got more to do with my personal experience with it and my slight preference for NIDA studies regarding it (slight meaning I'm more likely to trust them then marijuana users). Oh and something your more likely to agree with, and which is proven across the board, amphetamines promote the development of psychosis!! No one should ever mix regular use of amphetamines with psychedelics thats bound to lead to a trip down paranoia lane... the next thing you know you'll think that everyone's bodies have been stolen by sea monster and they want to eat you. Haha. Tssk tssk, adderall is bad for you, I mean gosh, I'm prescribed it for ADHD and I barely use it! Oh and lastly, most colloquial MDMA studies aren't acutally studying the effects of MDMA, MAPS has done true MDMA studies on people and animals (back in the 80s and early 90s, as they don't do animal studies anymore). Look around, www.maps.org has shit-tons of journal entries concerning it. Those studies you see on tv about "holes in the brain" which actually were only showing one girl who used a myriad of other recreational drugs and who actually didn't have any wholes in her brain just an area of decreased blood flow... well they are tainted because they study people who are typically classified as "club drug users" and who claim/think they use MDMA on a regular basis but are probably actually using things like PMA/caffeine/methamphetamines/PCP/heroin/cocaine/MDA/MDE /amphetamines/phentermines/pseudephdrine/dextromethorphan ... which are all typically mixed in a variety of ways and sold as "ecstasy".

ok quick question, only slightly off-topic re opiates - are the effects of opium, smoked or eaten, anything like the dream-world of hyperspace..? Do opium smokers get similar visions...? I have often wondered if the absolute wonder of the visuals (CEVs) from inhaled dmt are anything like opium 'dreams' ... In the 1800's, the famous writers from that era described these visions - http://en.wikipedia.org/...f_an_English_Opium-Eater

Wow !.. that's interesting - as I had thought opiate highs might be 'post orgasm' like satisfaction from just Being. So funny that Salvia is so different as an opioid and such ... I heard once about smoked H being like that - one big lungful was enough to make you (a) want to puke really bad, and (B) exist in a dark space where you could visualize cartoonish versions of what was going on around you - the TV, other voices, street sounds all made a visual parade behind swim's sedated eyelids. The desire for sensory input was sedated, so she just imagined it all from sound... And she resisted puking - held back all the time, and it was absolutely fucking miserable, she said. That one whiff of H was enough to turn her revolted, away from such horrible stuff. Not meaning to be too sweeping in my statements or insensitive to how one can end up into junk, but from what I can tell you really have to be hurting to resort to that, so 'low', so charged with stress, hopelessness and pain that you try to get 'high' from another big downer, puking and all... I would agree in calling it the polar opposite of the enlightenment we can have with psychedelics. And I see the similarity too - based on there being 'feelings' the ego seeks to have, and it's the same brain we're dealing with, that's getting altered in its state of consciousness. This model places opiates at the bottom of the list of psychic-circuit-activators, and psychedelics at the top: http://en.wikipedia.org/...t_Model_of_Consciousness But back to the topic area - is smoked opium resin any more visual in its effects than purified opiates are..? Is morphine visual too..? I have not tried salvia yet - it I understand it IS visual, like dmt, no..?

Thanks guys for that rich and documented topic. [quote:5b56ab601c]a good diet, and rhodiola rosea root are all good ways to go aboot doing this[/quote:5b56ab601c] Never heard about that herb before ! From wiki, it may acts as a MAOI. Could it be of any use in conjunction with DMT ?

Well, you've made an intelligent argument considering medical knowledge of the brain's neurotransmitter systems, and I'd have to concede only in as much as saying that when it gets down to it, all of the neurotransmitter systems are equally mysterious as our neuroscience lacks a strong understanding of the greater whole... its sort of like thinking you understand a RAM chip and a Processor and a video card without understanding whatsoever how a computer works. As for a couple of specific notes... Wellbutrin acts primarily on serotonin and secondarily on dopamine and norepinephrine... I'm not sure about the exact nature of tryptamines' antagonist+agonist activity, I am simply aware they that act as both simultaneously (not sure which parts of the brain they do which or how they go about doing those)...I trust NIDA because despite the general outlook on their being ridiculous, if you look at their individual studies, they are actually much more progressive then you would think, in fact, one of the landmark studies concerning ibogaine's anti-addictive properties was done by NIDA... YES I am aware that there is a slight intoxicating effect from endorphins during working out, but in surveying my friends and from anecdotal evidence on the internet, the intoxicating effect of working out is profoundly more potent and different for habitual heavy users of marijuana... from what I've read about THC, the metabolites that are stored in your system in your fat cells have a similar relation to actual THS as LSA has to LSD, that is, they are extremely chemically similar and to a lessor degree stimulate the same neurotransmitter effects... oh by the way NIDA isn't fine with doping our kids with amphetamines, that would be the FDA, NIDA has numerous studies regarding the negative effects of amphetamines, in fact, it's their studies that exposed the nature of amphetamine-psychosis and its relation to disorders like schizophrenia... and finally, even though DXM is related to Ketamine and PCP, several independent studies testing DXM on rats showed that unlike Ketamine and PCP it does not lead to olney lesions and long term psychosis, although considering its horrid effects on the liver and the rest of the digestive system, and the fact that it acts of NMDA receptors which are extremely important in the learning process I don't trust it nearly as much as tryptamines and phenethylamines (SWIM used to use DXM to facilitate OBE and astral projection, but doesn't any longer), and of course, I'm not sure how trustworthy the independent studies are considering that a lot of pharmaceutical company money is probably moving around to help prevent DXM's removal from the over-the-counter market...oh and finally, as for the impairment caused by heavy, long-term use of MDMA, such is true, but the impairment is typrically reversible and expresses itself as a serotonin deficiency, usually major unipolar depression (besides I think any sort of intoxicant including the sacred serotonin-entheogens would cause some sort of impariment following heavy long-term use.... albeit it, of varying degrees depending on what exactly the intoxicant is).