Of course consciousness can be hacked. It can be hacked to make someone delusional. That's what mental illness is often.

Anyway let me change what I said, psychedelics can give you experiences that you want and you can interpret them anyway you want. Therefore you can't say whether or not what you experience is closer to some truth or not without an objective analysis.

You can't tell me what I've done isn't real. I know for a fact it's real. That is my proof, and the proof of the other person on the other end.
It doesn't even involve psychedelics, it involves consciousness, focus, and meditation. Which, of course, can be applied to the psychedelic experience.
I was skeptical for years until I let go and started trying.

I also have absolutely no control over my journeys into hyperspace, and applaud you for your conducting skills!

So when a schizophrenic hears voices from the devil that's also real?

If you say otherwise you are being hippocritical. As is anyone who thinks that whatever they experience is real. We know the brain is capable of making illusions. It does this all the time without drugs. Think about optical illusions there are millions of examples.

No.
Schizophrenics aren't exactly meditating to send packets of consciousness...they are insane.
The devil isn't real. My friends and family are very real.
I'm here on the Nexus because of this, because of what has happened to us.
Open your mind, I'm not here to deceive, nor am I schizo.

Yes but schizophrenics are suffering from imbalances in neurochemistry. Similar types of changes can occur during meditation or when taking psychedelics. There are many differences between classic psychosis and psychedelic experience. But there are similarities between them and other substances like amphetamine psychosis for example. The point is that all altered states of consciousness are accompanied / caused by changes in regular everyday waking consciousness which are mediated by changes in the brain (ie neurochemistry). Much like other more serious altered states like psychosis except different systems are involved and with meditation and psychedelic drugs its not a degenerative brain disorder.

How can you say that an experience of the devil is not real but your spiritual experiences are real? Plenty of people have experiences where they see god or angels or the devil even on psychedelics. Just like plenty of people have visions of aliens while on psychedelics.

Optical illusions are clear examples of how the brain can create illusions. There are so many other examples of how the brain creates illusions such as phantom limb syndrome etc.

I do not mean to accuse you of being deceiving only to question what you have experience. Subjective experience of something spiritual is not proof that it exists.

I hope there are others reading this that have the guts to experiment. they'll see what I mean, and be just as amazed as I am. I know I'm not the only one here :]

You clearly have no idea what I am saying, and I'm OK with that. Barely anyone does...
Imagine if you were able to send your dreams to your friend for analysis (or any memories, thoughts), and she would receive them as feelings and be able to tell you all about them over the phone, or thru an e-mail, without ever making physical or vocal contact. Purely consciousness. Sober.

People call this telepathy, and everyone is skeptical of it until it actually happens.
These experiences simply reveal the interconnected nature of consciousness,
and that by focusing, you can move bits of it through space/time.

The very first time this happened to me I was so astonished...! (just last year)
My friend wasn't. She's used to this thing.
We've been going back and forth since.
For you to sit there and tell me that this is not happening, it's just all in my mind, is ludicrous.
I know this must sound insane to some readers, but guess what...?, it's 100% true and it's how it works, you just need to try!

I would love to be a part of some scientific experiment to prove to the world that this works. How exciting! Where is it?
All I have is the DMT-Nexus. It seems like an appropriate place to discuss the phenomena I've experienced and to try to get people to connect via mind.
It's about as mind blowing as DMT!

No offense at all burnt I am quite passionate about this ability I never thought was possible... It's just another step on the path of evolution.
This will conclude my rant in this thread...thanks for listening + ciao +

The phenomenon you report experiencing is interesting although I think there is a resonable explanation I can't say for sure just talking over the internet.

There are other cases of people lets say a relative dies and they feel it from far away. They know something went wrong. But is there naturalistic explanation? Is it really telepathy? I think more detailed analysis can reveal.

Anyway if you think you really have telepathic powers there are people out there who will try to confirm or deny what you experience.

why is the possibility of telepathy not being naturalistic escaping you... what else would it be... its like your trying to say that even though people see bees fly doesnt mean that they can or that its natural... its just an illusion of the nervous system that we see bees fly...

is it really not telepathy? how do you know? you dont... and thats whats so frustrating about your mindset is that its narrow...
why ignore possibilities even if they seem impossible... many of the most amazing discoveries in science, where thought impossible by scientists... when people ignore possibilities they limit the possibility of discovery.

I'm trying to figure out how it works. I wish there was a way to set up tests, other than just me and my friends. I am still young...I hope to grow old and write books about this stuff. There's a reason for all of our perspectives. I do this, you do that, testing all possibilities.

There is also the phenomena of moving your .. soul .. into another body, or animal.
This is very frequently reported in the amazon during ayahuasca sessions. People seeing thru the eyes of birds and then later confirming what they saw.
Another clear indication of the interconnected scaffolding.

Well most people who claim they are telepathic claim they have supernatural powers of offer no realistic explanation for how it works. But you are right I would assume that if telepathy is real then it must have a naturalistic explanation.

Concerning bees that's different we know why we see them.

Its a tough question to say why people think they have telepathic experiences. I highly recommend checking out the article I posted on this entitled:

"Using neuroimaging to resolve the psi debate" in the journal of cognitive neuroscience. 2008 volume 20(1) pages 182-192.

The paper talks about the problems with lots of the previous research and attempts to overcome many of the short comings by using an objective analytical method, fMRI. They found no difference in the brains of those who were getting correct answers on the tests and those who weren't. They found no evidence for psi phenomenon going on in the brain with this method. They even tried to encourage psi by recruiting participants who are supposedly better at psi like twins.



I am not ignoring the possibility. I am just looking at the data and I see nothing that is convincing. This stuff has been studied for over 3 quarters of a century and no strong conclusive evidence has ever been presented in favor of psi. Even more so no mechanism has ever been shown to rule in favor of psi while plenty of mechanisms that involve are normal senses and brain functioning can explain some aspects of what people think is psi. Its not about me knowing I am just looking at the data. I also tend not to believe peoples stories because I have experienced similar things and when I thought about it I concluded it wasn't psi it was just me being in tune with my friends while we were high or something like that.



I don't really believe these kinds of stories. Sure you can have an experience of being a bird and see the mountain range that's outside your normal view but that doesn't mean you really saw through the eyes of a bird. Also I would be willing to bet that if subjective to real objective scientific analysis it would be found to be nothing more then hallucinations as has been the case everytime its been analyzed seriously.

I do believe in a sort of telepathy. But not that it's supernatural. Often it's just non-verbal communication.
We are very good in identifying ourselves with others. You don't need immaterial dimensions for that.

^^Well that is true but its not mind reading. I guess I consider telepathy actually reading someones thoughts like a book even if its fragmented. I think that is impossible. But knowing what someone is thinking or non verbally communicating is very possible and normal.

I do believe the things you experience while high are caused by a mis-firing/wiring, and I don't see any evidence for the pedestrian phenomenon most of which was invented by the spiritualists at the turn of the century... I also didn't believe in any kind of religion experience until I actually had one (something very like it)... obviously I dont believe the human explanation given via theology, but I have experienced phenomenon that seems completely impossible to explain as a figment of imagination... and that's even given all the possibilities, that drug seems to have no archetypes associated with it and yet extremely complex and functional at the same time... I am totally fascinated by the substance.

I do tend to like the explanation that somehow the broken mind allows access to some higher octave of reality or direct access to the imagination or direct insight into the workings of the mind... I actually think it's depends on just how much "damage" is done, from one experience to the next you have the chance of unlocking the "doors of perception"... Shulgin's explanation after his first mescaline experience sums it up well.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't believe the pedestrian explanation, but I wouldn't be completely surprised to find a drug could really unlock some aspect of something... it was only very recently that this experience was had and it was shocking because I had long gone through the naïve adolescence of drugs, I thought there was no "understanding" to be had, no wisdom, now I'm not so sure... maybe too much "damage" was done

Well the psychedelic experience for sure is unlocking something.

I think most people underestimate how profound something that alter your perceptions can be, without having to overlaying it with a spiritual or supernatural context. Some find that explanation lacking in meaning or somehow more cold and cynical. I find it very profound.

We can learn so much as individuals and as a society from psychedelic substances.

Poor Tart deserves more credit than is given here by some people! Somehow, materialsts just can't accept there are more scientific possibilities.

Just found this Tart lecture, in part 2 he talks about materialism:

if you want to see that how we evolved is something non magical thats a sad state of affairs...

pretty awe inspiring and mysterious and magical if you ask me...
I dont beleive we will ever have it all figured out... and thas pretty magical...
I guess it depends on how you want to look at things and how you want to look at what "magical" means...

I do not think professor Tart cares to much about others views like many he has his passions that interest him more than life itself he knows some people laugh and disregard him but his passion and thirst for knowledge. His voice as well as persona are not commanding in any way.

He investigated the Monroe OTB experiences for years and became good friends with Monroe. I must say Monroe gave some seemingly ridiculous reports of his OBE experiences. That said I believe Monroe was sincere ie he did not PURPOSEFUL make it up to get attention and he was not mentally unstable in societies standards. He was a successful educated business and family man who though he was going insane when the experiences began. Monroes reports sound delusional to me come on in the "other dimension" he still had a Job to go to has to be BS.

Tart entertained Monroe's reports not thats embarrassing but he did not care he just wanted to get Monroe in the lab and DO some experiments.

Experiments by eccentric and strange people on the edge of science and society have been making the Big discoveries thru out time.

Socratics died in the street, Newton was a FREAK, Galileo immoral ect........................................Tesla. Faraday.......................I could go on forever

ON WITH THE EXPEREMENT

PEACE
MV

I hate how so many people grasp at materialsm like it's a vice, too afraid to let go..an vice versa..there has to be a middle ground.

In the late 1960's Tart did an "experiment" where he had a number on a shelf in a hospital. One woman undergoing surgery was able to read the number. Tart claimed is was proof that he had invalidated materialism and that the OBE involved the womans soul floating above her body.

Not only was this never repeated successfully but it was also found by another group to be an outright incorrect assumption. Why? Because in the same room was a clock that reflected the number so the patient easily could see it.

http://books.google.com/...e&q=tart&f=false

If Tart really was such a good scientist and investigator he would not have made such an extraordinary claim while leaving a gaping hole in his "experiment".

All just concepts..all meaningless words...all hung up, bent on explaining everythng away..nothing but HABIT..there is no explaining ANYTHING..there is only the infinity of direct experience...nothing else is fully relevent.