So if one was to brew some aya and then freeze it how long would it last for?

Well, i have a bottle of MHRB brew that I have been using once or twice a month for about 6 months. It has been kept frozen, thawed & re-heated, then re-frozen many times & does not seem to have lost any potency at all as of 2 weeks ago.

I believe I read someone mention Terrance McKenna having a brew stored in his freezer for years without losing any potency.

I was also told freezing and thawing too frequently was bad for potency, though I'm not sure if there's truth to this.

Freezing and thawing something repeatedly doesn't make anything less potent, but it does make things more vulnerable to spoilage.

I don't think molecules are broken by freezing. Cell walls are, making vegetable matter mushy and stuff. Actually, freezing might make it even *more* potent, because it'd be releasing more chemicals from any sediment that may be containing it.

LSD is an unusually fragile molecule and some comments are in order as to its stability and storage. As a salt, in water, cold, and free from air and light exposure, it is stable indefinitely. There are two sensitive aspects of its structure. The position of the carboxamide attachment, the 8-position, is affected by basic, or high pH, conditions. Through a process called epimerization, this position can scramble, producing isolysergic acid diethylamide, or iso-LSD. This product is biologically inactive, and represents a loss of a proportionate amount of active product. A second and separate point of instability is the double bond that lies between this 8-position and the aromatic ring. Water or alcohol can add to this site, especially in the presence of light (sunlight with its ultraviolet energy is notoriously bad) to form a product that has been called lumi-LSD, which is totally inactive in man. Oh yes, and often overlooked, there may be only an infinitesimal amount of chlorine in treated tap water, but then there is only an infinitesimal amount of LSD in a typical LSD solution. And since chlorine will destroy LSD on contact, the dissolving of LSD in tap water is not appropriate. -tihkal/shulgin

Well, while you're on the subject of ayahuasca, it would behoove us to figure out if any of the harmala alkaloids in the ayahuasca vine are subject to alteration by freezing.

(compound37 said) DMT lasts for quite a while if stored properly. Don't know if it would last longer, its fairly easy to put into airtight container to fight oxidation usually.. Imagine changa and dmt would both keep remarkably long time if kept in cool, dark, dry, and airtight location.
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...um/default.aspx?g=search

FURTHER EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY : There is a fascinating unanswered question that I had to ask myself a little while ago. It is a question that, if ever answered accurately, just might throw the entire area of the pharmacology of harmaline into a delightful disarray. I received a small quantity of documented seeds of Syrian rue and I was curious to see, in my hands, what its alkaloid content was. This is, after all, a well known source rapidly increasing in popularity as the inhibitor component of ayahuasca. So I ground a few of them up in a mortar under DMF and carbonate, spun down the extract, dissolved a drop of it in a milliliter of 90:10 toluene/butanol, and shot a microliter into the GCMS. As expected, there were two major peaks, and an intriguing scatter of small things. The spectrum of first was clearly that of harmaline, and of the second, that of harmine. The literature is correct.

Then, to tidy up a bit and make absolutely sure of the relative retention times, I decided to run standards from my reference collection. Reference harmine gave the second peak with identical retention time and MS spectrum. It was when I injected a sample of my reference harmaline that I got my surprise. Here, a sample of E. Merck AG, Darmstadt yellow crystalline material labeled Harmalinhydrochlorid, was very much looking as if it was a mixture of about two parts harmaline and one part harmine. Only 70% pure? Wow.

Three explanations popped into mind. (1) Maybe the harmine was being generated from harmaline, somehow, in my analysis. So I tried another reference sample, one recently purchased, and it gave a single peak. So it was not an artifact arising from some quirk of my analytical process. (2) Maybe the Merck sample, which I had obtained in the early 1960's (and of course I had no way of knowing how old it was when I got it) had come from plant sources, maybe even P. harmala itself. Maybe the analytical tools at the time were inadequate to detect and identify this amount of harmine as an impurity. This is not comfortable, in that these two alkaloids were first isolated, and separated from one-another, from plant sources some 150 years ago. I am sure my sample is not that old. I am not sure that even E. Merck AG is that old. The tools of analysis have been around a long time. Anyway, I wrote to them, and they answered me with the elliptical comment stating that they had never had harmaline in their catalog, only harmine. And thus, they would have no way of knowing what was in the bottle. Of course they could have distributed research samples of many things, of stuff that was never in their catalog, but by replying in this way they are absolved of all guilt. And of all legal responsibility as well, of course. OK.

This leaves (3). Maybe over the years, harmaline spontaneously loses a molecule of hydrogen, and becomes harmine. Not an easy thing to reckon with, chemically, but I am running out of possibilities. I was led to a comment that had been once made by a quiet hero of mine, Bo Holmstedt in Sweden, concerning the analysis of an ancient sample of plant material from Banisteria caapi (now known as Banisteriopsis caapi). The herbarium specimens he was looking at had been collected by the 19th century plant explorer Richard Spruce in the Rio Negro area of South America and had, after a few years of storage in a moist and mildewy hut a few miles down river, been rediscovered and sent on to the Kew Botanical Museum where they had quietly rested for over a hundred years. When Holmstedt worked them up some 30 years ago, he reported that the alkaloid content was 0.4%. This was virtually identical to a newly collected, botanically verified specimen of Banisteriopsis caapi which he analyzed at the same time and found to contain 0.5% alkaloids. The latter material contained, as described by many authors, the main alkaloids harmine, harmaline and tetrahydroharmine. By contrast, the alkaloid content of the Spruce material consisted exclusively of harmine. It is open to question whether the samples collected by Spruce in 1853 originally contained only harmine or, perhaps more likely, that harmaline and tetrahydroharmine have with time been transformed into the chemically more stable aromatic b-carboline harmine.

How can this enigma be answered? Put away a sample of pure harmaline, with its spectral identification, onto the shelf for 50 or 100 years, and then re-analyze it? Who knows, but what might be needed for this conversion is heat, or a bit of iron catalyst, or some unknown species of South American mold. Acid is certainly known to promote this oxidation. It would be very much worth while to answer this question because some, perhaps much, of the results of human pharmacological studies that involve harmaline as a metabolic poison, may be influenced by the independent action of harmine as a harmaline contaminants -shulgin/tihkal

Twenty-four-hour urine samples were obtained from 10 healthy male volunteers following administration of an oral dose of encapsulated freeze-dried ayahuasca (1.0 mg DMT/kg body weight). Results showed that less than 1% of the administered DMT dose was excreted unchanged. Around 50% was recovered as indole-3-acetic acid but also as DMT-N-oxide (10%) and other MAO-independent compounds. Recovery of DMT plus metabolites reached 68%. Harmol, harmalol, and tetrahydroharmol conjugates were abundant in urine. However, recoveries of each harmala alkaloid plus its O-demethylated metabolite varied greatly between 9 and 65%. The present results show the existence in humans of alternative metabolic routes for DMT other than biotransformation by MAO. Also that O-demethylation plus conjugation is an important but probably not the only metabolic route for the harmala alkaloids in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22514127

sekio said:
01-07-2011 23:09
I'd expect oxidisation to N,N-DMT N-oxide and polymerization (to a total mess). Probably some indoleacetic acid, indoleacetaldehyde, dimethylamine, methylamine, ammonia, formaldehyde, CO2, H2O, methanol etc etc.

http://www.bluelight.org...0811-N-N-DMT-degradation

Twenty-four-hour urine samples were obtained from 6 DMT users before and after intake of 25 mg DMT doses on two separate sessions. In one session, DMT was taken orally and in another it was smoked. After oral ingestion, no psychotropic effects were experienced and no DMT was recovered in urine. MAO-dependent indole-3-acetic acid (IAA) represented 97% of the recovered compounds, whereas DMT-N-oxide (DMT-NO) accounted for only 3%. When the smoked route was used, the drug was fully psychoactive, unmetabolized DMT and DMT-NO rose to 10% and 28%, respectively, and IAA levels dropped to 63%. An inverse correlation was found between the IAA/DMT-NO ratio and subjective effects scores. These findings show that in the smoked route a shift from the highly efficient MAO-dependent to the less efficient CYP-dependent metabolism takes place. This shift leads to psychoactivity and is analogous to that observed in ayahuasca preparations combining DMT with MAO inhibitors.
Copyright © 2014 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25069786

So again, with DMT,where are the weak spots on the molecule?, when it "brakes" what will it brake into?, and what conditions will cause those weak points to "break"?

I can't find this information anywhere else...