After I started working with Ayahuasca and Mapacho my relationship with cannabis changed greatly. Ayahuasca showed me how to use cannabis more ceremonially and Mapacho also showed me how to talk to the smoke a bit... I can share some brief examples.

Maybe you are familiar with "shamanic journey" where people use a drum to enter trance and have a visionary experience? Well I sometimes do the same thing, but instead of a drum I use a little bit of cannabis mixed with mapacho. I sit somewhere without distractions - usually in nature when possible. Then I hold a spliff of cannabis and mapacho blended together in my hand while I pray for guidance for a while. Once I feel like I have prayed good I will sing or whistle into the spliff, then light it up, take just 1-4 puffs and soon I can leave my body and drift on the smoke to talk to my spirit guides. Works very well. (can work well with just mapacho or just cannabis, but I get best results with them mixed together)

Another way to do ceremony with cannabis is more based on Ayahuasca ceremony. Dark room and silence just like with Aya, but instead of drinking Ayahuasca you ingest a large amount of cannabis and get really stoned - eat, smoke, or however you like as long as it's a lot. Then I sing icaros just like an Ayahuasca ceremony and call in the energies I want. This method works best when you know how to sing icaros and when you get really stoned - you may even purge from being so stoned. It can be very powerful though - surprisingly similar to Ayahuasca ceremony, though of course still unique in many ways. After learning this method I found out that the owner of Blue Morpho in Iquitos does group ceremonies with cannabis in a similar fashion so I guess I am not the only one onto this idea.

I could not agree more, I have a thread about fitz ludlow and hash eating where Mr. Ludlow describes all these wonderful effects, which when I first started I could achieve, but have not been able to.Again sense...

Though happy and hungry is Entheogenic in my opinion as well, when you are happy you are more prone to compassionate behavior and wanting others to be happy, your less likely to promote negative actions, and are blessed with freedom from stress and negative thoughts...and when your hungry you are reminded to keep your body nourished and fed.

Once I was involved in a conflict, I was angry and ready for revenge, but before I acted I decided to meditate with a spliff, at which point I was able to calm down and reassess the situation, and it stopped me from behaving in a manner that would have been detrimental to myself and the party I was in conflict with...when your angry like this it's hard for another person to talk you out of it, but one spliff and my entire perspective on the situation had changed, and in the end I ended up making a positive decision, I acted as jah, or Buddha, or Jesus or whoever would have suggested, in this way marijuana is an entheogen...

It's able to neutralize stress and anger, it induces happiness and laughter, it induces calm, peace, and a meditative state of mind, these are all holy mindstates.

It makes daily life easier, and promotes, peace, calm, and happiness.







-eg

Thanks for sharing, interesting stuff, I have not ventured into the ceremony aspect of cannabis, rather I feel it's effects itself are the spiritually beneficial practice, though I would not be opposed to ceremony.

I think prior knowledge and intention may also increase the efficacy of cannabis as a spiritual tool, when one is well experienced in the art of using plants as entheogens and has knowledge of spiritual experiences and practices combined with spiritual intentions, it becomes fairly easy to see the potential entheogenic applications of cannabis.

For cultures where cannabis has been connected to religion for thousands of years, such as in the cannabis using Hindu sects, it's completely obvious as to how and why cannabis can be an amazing tool to incorporate into spiritual practice...

...for people like myself who were raised in the west it may not be so overtly obvious, many westerners struggle with the notion, but again they were raised in a culture teaching them that cannabis is a party, escapist, hedonistic, illegal and immoral as well as an unhealthy vice, so regardless of what the situation may actually be its very hard for people raised in this atmosphere to let go of these notions, or be able to grasp notions of how it may very effectively be used otherwise...

Though cannabis has culturally been viewed as an entheogen for far longer than its been viewed as a "drug". They found a 2,700 year old grave of a gushi shaman burried with a few pounds of cannabis, which was determined to be psychoactive and cultivated for this purpose...they view that cannabis is an illegal drug with no religious or medical value is the newer concept, and as the science continues to confirm that cannabis is not the "devils weed" of reefer madness, but rather a benign plant with many medical benefits these absurd notions will eventually fade into the dust-bin of history and cannabis will likely resume it's place as a medicine, an entheogen, and a tool to make life just a little bit easier for everybody else.

When used properly cannabis can be as intense as any other psychedelic. I'm of the opinion that set, setting, prior knowledge, intention, and tradition can make the difference between a fairly moderate experience and a connection to the spiritual...

Though I enjoy the mild effects which allow me to incorporate cannabis into my daily life, I like that it gives me a slice of the psychedelic without hindering my daily function, for the deep.work there is yagé, DMT, mescaline, etc...fir the daily work there is cannabis...which can be used for work beyond the "daily" as well.

I think that as more states legalize and more people are presented the opportunity to use cannabis completely disconnected from the criminal element and the stigma of doing something against the law, that more and more people will discover cannabis as normal part of their life, as an entheogen, a medicine, and a tool to get through daily life while remaining as stress free, calm, and happy as possible.

It does put you in a peaceful, meditative, inspirational, happy, and holy state...now when you learn how this relates to spiritual practice you can more effectively use it as a tool for spiritual practice.



-eg

cheers Psybin.

ive never had the opportunityto try concentrates so i cant really comment on those but when ive been in Amsterdam i didnt notice the difference either i can tell the difference is look taste and flavour but when it came to effect they all seem the same beside strength.

for me, so far, weed is weed, but maybe im just a heathen

Yeah, I feel mostly the same regarding flower. Bud is bud, as far as effects (with the exception of white widow and one or two other specialty strains that for some reason get me a different sort of lifted ). Concentrates are like a different substance as far as effects, though - especially in high doses. The terpenes are in much higher concentration in waxes and oils, so they play a much larger role in modulating the psychoactive effects, as well as having their own psychoactive effects.

For me THC is THC...

.. but there are other terpenes and cannabinoids contained in the flower as well as the hasheesh / extract that may contribute to the psychoactivity the user experiances.

THC, CBD, CBN, these are all odorless and tasteless comoounds, so even with good BHO extract these other compounds still exist, and likely are responsible for cannabis's variable subjective experiences.



-eg

I would be willing to bet that this is why most people don't really notice much or any subjective difference in effect from different strains of flower. I suspect the terpenes and minor cannabinoids are just too low in concentration to be as significant in modulating psychoactive effects (in addition to their own psychoactive effects, in greater concentration) in flower, as compared to extracts.

The strains do matter but it's only half the battle.

Say you are growing a strain produces lots/little oils, that takes longer/shorter to flower, requires slightly more/less water, and is known to reach a larger/smaller size, and prefers this or that soil or nutrients...all if this matters...these factors are determined by the genetics the plant evolved in relation to its environment, marijuana growing in the Amazon has different characteristics from marijuana growing in north Africa...and if your seeking specific characteristics to meet your specific needs knowing the "strains" makes a huge difference.

These plants also contain unique ratios of terpenes, cannabinoids, lipids, etc. Based on their genetics or what "strains" it is..all of which are said to effect the subjective experience...as well as the taste and smell.

Strains do matter, good genetics do matter, but as far as smokers are concerned, unless you prefer a specific flavor, you should be more concerned with how well it was grown rather than the name that's on the jar...look for nutrient and light deficiencies, look for male flowers and signs of hermaphrodation, look for seeding, both seeding caused by pollination from another plant, and seeding caused by hermaphadation, look for molds, fungi, signs of parasites, then check bud density, smell, taste, and so on...

If you choose the marijuana was was grown the best, you can't go wrong.

Something can be "white window" (which I think is terrible, difficult to grow, always low yields) and have bad genetics, you can have real "white window" that's also genetically weak, low compound production, small buds, etc...

So in that sense the name or strain means nothing, again unless you prefer a certain flavor, like, I love sour diesel for its unique taste and general high potency, but if it's not well grown ill pass it for something that is.

The strain hunters guys act like all the growers I know, when I'm in a grow house I even examine the plants in a similar fashion...

I keep forgetting most the country is living in a different world when it comes to marijuana and have far different attitudes towards it....

-eg

I respectfully disagree, I feel the terpenes and other cannabinoids are present in sufficient amounts in both extract and flower to be considered significant and a contributing factor to subjective effects, THC, CBD, CBN, all are tasteless and odorless, so even really good extract contains them, I'm of the opinion they are signifigant

-eg

Here's a theory that may be of interest.

Was cannabis furnished by nature to provide for human beings a medication for the restoration of a neuronal biochemical environment that emulates that of our ancient ancestors on which whose brains evolved and reached their peak 200,000 years ago? If that ancient diet was a diet related to daily intake of bioflavonoids, various MAO inhibitors, resulting in increased pineal activity resulting in increased melatonin production, perhaps prerequisite for the production of DMT or some other type of psychoactive compound that facilitates dreaming during sleep, the certain concentration of which may relate to a certain intensity of awareness of both waking and sleeping worlds of consciousness. Having lost the diet we lost the original fruit that helped us to grow the only tree of knowledge there is, which is your brain, so nature furnishes compounds designed to emulate the biochemical structural effects of that ancient diet on our brains in a hypothesized effort to restore to us back to sanity before we destroy the whole ecosystem, which includes ourselves. So, cannabis comes along. Cannabis plugs incredibly neatly into our systems. Increasing melatonin production by 4000%, also having some effect on the shifting of left hemisphere dominance to right hemisphere dominance. What cannabis may be doing neurologically is helping us to restore a certain balance to our brains that existed a very long time ago. All our attempts to find the perfect high may be just this effort to medicate a 200,000 year long descent to a degenerate condition of unbalanced brains.

Can you believe that 200,000 years ago, there existed people just like you and me, allegedly without language, that had not only bigger brains (by about 120 cc or so) but also no hemisphere dominance? Recall that LSD apparently has no effect on the left hemisphere. I can't help but be bugged by the question, when I wonder about how great our brains were and what the corresponding state of consciousness would have been like, that if we had such incredible brains with all the obvious potential that goes along with balanced brains, on a plant diet, how can it be that we were stupid enough to lose contact with the very diet that fed the evolution of our consciousness? Don't we know our cake when we are eating it?Perhaps we are in a more incredible situation than we realize. If our perhaps limitless potential as a collective were realized species-wide today, we would very soon be living on a planet where everyone is as evolved as Jesus.

Could it be that Cannabis, or any of the psychedelics, evolved for the purpose by some magical means to bring human beings back into alignment with nature?

I'm sure terence mckenna would think so...

Do plants have intentions?

I remember terence mckenna telling a story, he said in his greenhouse a caapi vine had coveted an entire tree, except for a single branch, he said this offended his sense of symmetric image, he even contemplated moving the vine onto the branch, and as he was having that thought, the branch broke off the tree, dead.
The plant was able to sense that the branch was unstable and thus did not grow there...it displayed conscious intentions...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb_9X3I38N0
In this clip we see the "daughter vine" choose it's prey, it seems to be able to consciously choose the plant host which would benefit it the most...

There are even plants that will secrete a substance, when this plants parasite consumes the substance, it causes the parasites to emit a smell that attracts their predator species...

Plants will also offer substances to attract symbiotes...

There is a fungus, it takes plant matter and secrets a material which is perfect ant food, so leaf cutter ants will cut leaf to feed to their fungus...

Or consider Solanum lycocarpum, this trees seeds must be processed through a mammals digestive track to germinate, so the plant offers the manned wolf a fruit full of toxins that kill the wolf's stomach parasites...

It's obvious that plants have intentions and relationships with other living beings...

-eg

Relationship is obvious, yes. But intention...? No.

You must have intention to form relationships, they are forming these relationships for very clear and defined reasons.

To me it's clear that there is in fact intention behind plant behavior.

The examples in my last post make this clear.

http://www.wakingtimes.c...-by-plant-consciousness/
This was an interesting read touching on "plant intelligence"


http://www.pbs.org/wnet/...about-introduction/8228/
In this link you can watch the full PBS documentary "what plants talk about" again, this confirms intention behind plant behaviour.



-eg

I like what you say. Maybe you can help me reconcile the idea of a psilocybin paradise as devised and articulated by Terence Mckenna with the paradise that existed as argued in "Return to the Brain of Eden written by Tony Wright" that fell 200,000 years ago concomitant with our departure from our truly native diet that consisted of fruits, basically nature's semen, this being the high octane fuel (a mixture of high content lecithin, bioflavonoids, monoamine oxidase inhibitors, and other super quality material for the development of the brain) that as a result of this diet caused the tripling in brain size and complexification in a flash of evolutionary time). Included in this ancient oral sex diet are psilocybin mushrooms?
If these psychedelics and cannabis can generally by agreed to support a shifting of cerebral dominance from the left hemisphere to the right hemisphere, and we also know that beginning 200,000 years ago was the descent upon a completely balanced and harmonious brain a disease of imbalance. This imbalance physiologically in the brain is the symptom of left hemisphere dominance, which is why we are addicted to thinking, because language is a function primary of the left hemisphere, the same hemisphere that is damaged by 200,000 years of bad diet. The right hemisphere somehow seems to remain relatively non-damaged. The reason for this has to do with genetics; somehow each hemisphere has evolved genetically asymmetrical, and the departure from our native frugivorous diet in the forest and acceptance of less nutritive diet (which can also be thought of the beginning of the species trend away from nature, by cutting out of our diet elements of the vegetal world as they are, raw and organic and loved for their energies).
So we are beset with unbalanced brains my friends and our state of consciousness is unfortunately, unless means are taken to manually shift your perception, dominated by the hemisphere that is exactly the least qualified to do the job as a result of a physical state of degeneration through 200,000 years of bad diet.

So I'm wondering, if we look at history with this point of view, where does the potential role of the vegetal intelligences like cannabis, psilocybin, LSD, peyote, etc fit in? in the evolution of human consciousness?
Is human consciousness really just a state of consciousness that is a hallucination of isolation, fundamentally disconnected from the intelligence of plants, of the environment?

I was only able to skim through as I'm on my way out the door, I'll get to the rest of your post on my break...

Keep in mind that flowering plants arose out of the last extinction, we share their origins, and have unknowingly been under an enormous deal of their influence...



Though terence may have sold short the plants intentions for us in that quote...

When exploring for plant food early man must have been exposed to a wide range of chemical compounds, some which may have allowed for higher neurotransmitter formation and the generation of our present conscious state...



I'm not certain it was psilocybin in particular, so much as it was plant chemistry in our diet as a whole...

Consider L-tryptophan, we must obtain this amino acid from our diet, which makes it "essential" our bodies use tryptophan to produce 5-ho-tryptamine which it then converts to n-acetyl-5-methoxy-tryptamine which is then converted to 6-methoxy-tetrahydro-beta-carboline...

So with out the ingestion of tryptophan our brain chemistry would lack serotonin, DMT, meletonin, pinoline, and so on...This would be a mass of missing essential chemistry if tryptophan was not incorporated in our diet...

Now, psilocin is 4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine, if you moved the hydroxy group from 4 to 5 and removed the CH3 (methyl) groups from the amine nitrogen, you would have serotonin, these are very minor changes that take you from a powerful psychedelic to an essential neurotransmitter...

The psychedelics are "external neurotransmitters" offered by plant symbiotes to steer our evolution one way or another...

I'll get back to this topic as soon as I'm at a break, I for sure did not get to fully read/respond to your post, but wanted to get out this little bit of information as I was walking out the door...

-eg

What you mentioned is within the pages of this book I was speaking of!
What keeps bugging me is just why on earth these things are out there.
From an artist's point of view of how the universe works, perhaps they are there to accelerate novelty, and no other creature on this planet is as much a novelty engine than our brains, and so through some sort of magical mysterious intentionality on the part of the intelligence implicit in nature, in plants themselves, by combining ourselves with plants, we become completed. Somehow.
From an engineer's point of view of how the universe works, nothing happens on accident. Yes, there may be accidents such as mutations and this kind of thing, but these are still within nature's umbrella of purpose to evolve itself to higher and higher levels as a strategy to conquer space time, according to Terence. All mistakes are within the designing process, in other words.
I just find it exceedingly odd that I can smoke a plant like cannabis, and quite literally experience a shift in frequency, a shift in perception that really does add a dimension of seeing to my vision as a whole. I wonder if this could be accidental. I wonder if this is designed. Were human beings meant to smoke cannabis? revere different kinds of vegetal gnosis?
Rightly so, we say, this is where religion begins.
But isn't that weird that that is the way it is?

Further, a simple alteration of the psilocin molecule resulting in serotonin? These psychedelics as external neurotransmitters? I mean wow! My brain is not inside my head! My brain is the entire plant kingdom!
Where does the edge of human intentionality begin?
Where does the edge of vegetal intentionality end?

I think plant life guides biology...yet biology doesn't really seem to notice...

I'm reminded of the plant from the pbs video I posted, which offers its parasite
A trichome, this trichome will cause this parasite to emit a scent which attracts its preditor once eaten, the plant is manipulating the life around it chemically...

When these psychedelic plants produce these neurotransmitter similar molecules, it's not as a waste product, these are not the waste products of metabolic process, rather these plants are dedicating good deals of energy and effort to produce these compounds, now, these compounds don't aide the plant in any way, that is unless these compounds found their way into the nervous system of a symbiote functioning on higher neurochemistry, an animal whose conscious baseline is generated by similar compounds...

Serotonin is 5-hydroxy-tryptamine, meletonin is n-acetyl-5-methoxy-tryptamine, dimethyltryptamine is endogenously produced, 6-methoxy-tetrahydro-beta-carboline also know as "pinoline" is an endogenous beta-carboline, a cyclised tryptamine similar to the harmala alkaloids found in banisteriopsis caapi and peganum harmala...

Then there's phenethylamine neurotransmitters, dopamine is 3,4-dihydroxy-phenethylamine, mescaline is 3,4,5-trimethoxy-phenethylamine) (epinephrine, norepinephrine, are other major phenethylamines)

So these plants are essentially offering us modified neurotransmitters, which we have the receptors for as these compounds resemble our endogenous neurochemistry...

arachidonoylethanolamine or anandamide, is a fatty acid neurotransmitter, it's one of the reason why the endocannabinoid system exists, cannabis effects us because it's cannabinoid compounds exploit the system in place for our endogenous cannabinoids, such as anandamide.

"Endorphins" is a term derived from "endogenous morphines"

Most people forget the oxygen we breathe, the food we eat, the cloths we wear, the medicines we use and the neurotransmitters in our heads which allow higher brain functioning such as serotonin all come from plants...

Plants have intentions, and appear to manipulate biology...


I'm reminded again of the leaf cutter ants, who are in a sense being manipulated by a fungus, the fungus can't get up and go in search of food, so it manipulated insects into marching through the Forrest and cutting fresh leaf to feed it, n return the fungus offers a food source to the ants, it's symbiotic, so it's not total manipulation, but it is amusing to think that when you see the ants marching with leaf, they are working for a fungus...

Fungi are strange, they breathe oxygen, unlike plants, they don't use light to produce their food, unlike plants, fungi are far more animal than plant...

Ok, I'm getting off topic, and again, I'm running out the door, though I'm actually going to come back to this topic today, I feel I barley had time to get any ideas out...

-eg

Even as a "Spirituality & Mysticism" thread, this thread is devolving into nonsensical and baseless speculation. Plugging it up with tons of unconnected factoid tidbits doesn't make it any less pseudoscientific.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrrSAc-vjG4

Please watch this film.

Plants don't have behavior and intentions?

Plants do not produce chemicals to manipulate biology?

So what are the possible implications of this?

Science has no answers, so educated speculation is appropriate.

There's nothing spiritual here, or nonsense, the speculation is well informed, and many in the field of science would share my opinions...

If I'm wrong, please provide the evidence, I think I have done well enough in that area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb_9X3I38N0
This vine has no roots and can't produce its own food, it has 72 hours to find a host, and yet it can still select it's "favorite" plants

A clear display of behavior and intention.

From the pbs film we see a plant offer its parasite insect a trichome, when this insect eats the trichome it then emits a compound which attracts a bird to eat it...the plants chemicals are clearly aware of the biology it is manipulating, it has intention to remove its parasites, and one of the ways this occurs is chemical manipulation of biology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYIWZuFsb60

Again, I provided evidence and examples to back my opinions and speculations, when you can do the same to prove me wrong I'll consider your opinion on the matter, but simply saying "your wrong" won't be enough.

My conclusions:

·Plants are conscious and have intention
·Plants use chemicals to communicate with living creatures

Where's the spirituality? And pseudoscience?

The speculation is educated and revolves around the areas where science is void of answers what so ever.

-eg

I'm not surprised I received a similar response...

That article isn't that good, but it does make the point the science is changing its views in this area as more evidence arrives.

-eg