i dunno,
ive been 50 several times, and have about 35 yrs of hallucinogenic mayhem behind me.
combined with 30 yrs of grow alchemy..............

if anything i believe MORE in open source answers.

everyone knows its not about the vote,
its about the super delegates, thats what makes the voters nervous.

Hey Warrior, I think 16 votes is not enough to draw conclusion.

Also that the word "Institution" is not enough to draw a conclusion about at all, it could be many things, things that fall out of your very well meant intentions.

I marvel at your positive intentions and I believe in your "best interest" but please consider in how far an "Institution" will effectively cope with that, this I recon not evident at all. If I read your post I think you consider that it (institution) will reflect your best interests without a shadow of a doubt.

I think literally no one questions your best interests at all.
The opinions how these best interests can be sowed and harvested is a very sensitive debate and I hope you can see the No-votes in such context (I suggest).

The question (the voting) is not about best interests IMHO, but in what format these can be brought forth or cultivated given the circumstances (and here I point again to typical humans being not perfect and they shouldn't be). For this I'm not sure about the "Institution" format and therefore I could not vote.

I do love the positivism in your posts!

I have been watching this thread for some time and while I feel as if I'm probably saying things that have already been said. I'll just say them anyway.

I have thought long and hard about the beautiful day when people are not persecuted for what they put into their own bodies. I have felt that if all drugs were legalized that, like alcohol, and regulated, people would be able to buy drugs themselves at certain kinds of stores, like we're seeing with dispensaries and the cannibis market.

As far as institutions go, I look at community centers. With alcohol we call them bars, lounges and occasionally clubs. With a new market for legal drugs set up, opium dens for the opiate users, dance clubs for the cocaine users, and rave clubs for the MDMA minded.

Would trip out centers spring up through the use of psychedelics? Padded comfy rooms with black lights and crazy art where people could chill out, that also had quiet rooms where people could spend if they got too high or were freaking out. If drugs were legalized these institutions would happen organically if looking at a capitalist model. Businesses would have incentive to keep their clients safe and happy. Harm reduction would be a clear byproduct of a legal market. Just as bars try to limit over intoxication, trip out places would have babysitters and other like minded people. No people dying from drugs whose quality are unknown, purity would be demanded by consumers and dosage would be labeled. As all the alcohol bought has clear labeling of % alcohol. In fact businesses would have incentive to add more information to a product because that's what a customer would want, such as beer snobs putting IBUs on their products. So I think using steps to legitamize and push for legalization is the best approach. The medical model has been the best at doing this for both cannibis and psychedelics, hands down.

Though personally for me, such institutions bore me. Psychedelics are too personal for me. Cups of mushroom tea among friends is better than tripping face around strangers. Though I have had a lot of fun at festivals, though that is far from an institution. Likewise I'm one for living and communing with nature, to grow the plants, to work with them and consume them at my own home. I invite friends to share my space with me.

Want to trip balls with someone whose done it before and make sure you don't strip naked and throw your feces at police officers. Sure friend come over to my place and I'll be your sitter.

Want to chill out and watch the constellations while on a head full of mushies contemplating the cosmos. Sure friend lets do it.

Having some dark thoughts and want to do some shadow work exploring your mind, need a friend to help if things get rough. I'm there.

Lost that creative edge, writers block got you down, how bout a trip to hyperspace to see some wild things, maybe that'll help, if not it still might be kind of fun, I got a room in the back I use for meditation you're welcome to come over and smoalk.

At the end of the day, my favorite institution is my home, my sanctuary.

ive only encountered that in jail when tripping.
first they fire tear gas at you..........

sorry , bending the topic.......carry on.

Seriously overconvoluted banter. Perhaps rather than discussing starting a religion we could be discussing how to legitimize the use of entheogens in any spiritual practice and not just for Sante Diame and the Native American Church. As I probably overstated earlier entheogens have grown my personal spiritual practice BUT because they are criminalized they are in a secret compartment. I would like to see that change but not by forming a religion per se. CEL is one of the forum threads I watch a lot that I think shares this intention.

Now my impression is that we all agree on a loosely defined direction of potential work, but the language and terms are yet to be collected into a singular agreement with respect to the law and the structures of our society. We don't have a consensus vision, but we're all looking in one general direction of interest.

The future is a rochart blot. What society do you want to live in? What does your vision of the future hold for the US?

I see a happier, more peaceful, more sensitive and aware culture emerging.

Sorry Warrior, you have completely crossed over into cult leader demagogue territory. That's a pretty sad achievement, looking at how there isn't any cult yet. I did kinda see your point, and was just pointing out things that worry me, but here you totally lost me.


Translation from high pathos to English: "You guys are stupid and immature, and you'll learn to understand why you were wrong and I was right in time"

Reply: No we're not, and I doubt it.


Warrior, have you even bothered read the answers here? If you have, you are choosing to ignore our concerns, and that is somewhat hurtful - and at the same worrying. What I see in this answer is blind conviction of your own right, and nothing but contempt for those who disagree with you.

Sorry, but this strengthens me 100 times in my conviction that people who push for institutions are dangerous - making institutions themselves dangerous.

I think Warrior has brought out some great opinions from all sides that needed to be voiced. I'll commend him on having the guts to start this conversation. It's vague enough to allow us to envision with freedom what we want, and what we do not want. The conversation has been valuable.

That said, I agree with Psyduckmonkey--we don't need to onward christian soldiers ourselves toward any sort of organization related to psychedelics. The way things are now is beautiful: a kind of word-of-mouth mycelial network.

If a fruiting body decides to emerge, it will do so by itself, not by any kind of purposeful volition. Perhaps this thread is an example of a burgeoning impetus of such a fruiting body, defeated by its own stubbornness to manifest.

We can let it die--return to the compost for future more harmonious, fluid emergence of organization.

Centralization of power may be part of the old way of being that is dying out. Organization may not require centralization after all.

bases can be destroyed.
ideas cant.

this was a good conversation indeed.
i see the points made.

there pry is no one answer,
given the fact its still a war zone mentality.
end the war first, then possibilities will flourish.

that said, we can hope for some form of enlightenment and fellowship in the future.

I have some follow-up info to add to this. It has come to my attention that there are already many groups doing exactly the work I described here. They are creating religious nonprofit organizations that define their terms in such a way that encapsulates the psychedelic plant work as central to their belief structure. We don't hear about them yet because there haven't been any landmark legal cases, but they are happening.

I thought you all might appreciate this.

Let's hope there doesn't have to be any landmark legal cases...