The model we follow in the US goes like this. It's capitalism, but the rules of the game are nonprofit religious organization. Look here at how it all begins. Here on the Nexus, the level of dialogue is happening on the level of family and friends. This book is like the cliffs notes on how to build a corporation from nothing.



Do you want names? It's in nobodies best interest to know these things. If you want to answer this question yourself, begin by looking into the Santo Daime and UDV court cases. Another great place to find champions of this movement are currently do work towards legalizing marijuana. Use your imagination. There are all kinds of walks of life out there that would love to be a part of something like this. Literally love. This is no exaggeration. Just because they don't post here doesn't mean they aren't out there.





You should spend some time within a medical marijuana community and see how the doctors recommending have evolved, how coops have evolved, how growing has evolved, and how incredible the patient care has become within the community. Years ago the whole scene was very sketchy. It was sketchy offices, sketchy doctors, sketchy clients, sketchy dispensaries... Now it's all 21st century amazing. Just a few short years of work as an industry, and BOOM! It's evolved into a beautiful, organic, self-sustaining entity. It's here to stay, and becoming more sophisticated and refined all the time.







That's silly because no one is saying
1) come here, only here
2) don't go to the amazon
3) don't do this at home
4) don't do your homework and make up your own mind about any of this

We are free beings to do as we please. This is merely one option among many.




Now we're talking the same language. This is what it's all about. You made the exact point for me.

Something else worth mentioning for clarity purposes: I am giving this idea to the Universe whether or not I am able to carry it out. If someone else were interested in taking this idea and running away with it, please do. I would be happy to see it achieve a life of it's own--in a parallel world in which the ideas I meet along the way are carried out by others instead of me. It would be a dream come true. I would be happy to meet up with you and celebrate the opening event of your religious organization of this format. Thank you.

i suspect whats making people nervous here,
is the combo of religion, drugs, and centraliztion.

the drug part alone has its issues,
we all know what mayhem religion and centralization has caused.
the political wild card is also a ghost rider in all this.

alot of us have a stake in fighting the abuses of religion, politics and drug war.
its realistic to consider a drug based religion, combined with cash incentives,
to be asking for dope fascism.

its not people finding god thru drugs, or community thats the issue.
people can already do that......
its about the " club" attitude, and what Machiavellianism antics might ensue.

keep in mind,
the army experimented wholesale with hallucinogens,
why dont they love them as bio weapons?
because they make people unpredictable.................

institutions are failing all around us.
no one has faith in centralization anymore.
the proles are wise to it it seems.

the real test is this........
" whos is joining the church of annie?"

^ hell i wouldnt even do that.
and , im loph girl incarnate!

this here is the gist of it

there are doers and there are talkers

what warrior is basicly saying is , please do all the work and then invite warrior as the chief guest to the event

No centralization.

If we were producing a novel product and were building a business to make, distribute, market, and sell it, we would get copy protections, trademarks, etc. But we're not doing that. We're building an open source concept anyone can duplicate, make their own, or integrate with us.

If we were producing a product, everything we do or say until protections are in place is considered trade secret. That is, we don't give it away so someone else can beat us to market and dominate our ideas as their own. But that isn't our concern here because this is something to build for all walks of life, by any walk of life. This is something fundamental to being human.

This is the age of information. We use distributed systems to transmit powerful ideas among many people for input, thought, consideration, and for feedback. That is the opposite of centralization. This is democratization of something that is currently out of reach and under represented in the United States. What I'm talking about is the future of entheogens here on Earth for all mankind.

I was a terribly cynical skeptic of everything my whole life until I came full circle to the roots of my own life, my own lineage, and go on to learn about where I've come from, and what it means in the context of science and reason. The future of spirituality MUST integrate science as its backbone. Plant medicines are the bridge between worlds. It won't happen if we can't work it out for ourselves here in the United States. I believe in this country I was born into. And I believe in a world beyond the current dogmas and mantras repeated ad nauseum by the leaders of the free world.

I believe in this.

its all good warrior.
i would wish you the best cuz i think ya have the right intentions.

certainly i endorse hallucinogens,
and ,the heathens could sure use a dose of some kind of spirituality.

if only the alchemist growers hold the secrets, its sorta elite-ist.

my answer has always been open source education.
its pry not the only answer for all......

ideally perhaps we should strive for a full spectra balanced outreach?
something for everyone, with lots of self empowerment?

a church that controls fire, might not be good.
a church that teaches people how to control their own fire, might be workable.

dis.

It's easy for us to say "Just educate yourself on the internet," because we've done it. But remember, over half the world's population does not have internet. And those who do... may not have the time nor initial knowledge to seek out the information they need.

This is why I feel irl education is important.

Something beyond MAPS, and beyond the psychedelic conferences that is 99% preaching to the choir.

"Institution" gives the impression of firmness and reliability yet Institutions are like the people in it, volatile. No reason not to try it but beware the combination humans & expectations (despite good startup-intentions). There can pop up more of them easily when the ice gets broken, and it will be a stunning variety to behold.

In itself fraternities and it's escapades are nothing new as a phenomena in society but the plants will have a special add to this. If the local stroll-in-the-woods club goes off the charts odd then nobody really wonders as people are people are humanly unpredictable, but when such things happen in Entheogen Institutions then peoples responsibilities will be commuted by that "taking drugs".

Any downside outside "perfection" will not be interpreted as human-error or statistical casualty, it will be the drugs fault, LEO wears that grin to "safe" society. But you can't safe humans from being human, vulnerable, volatile, stupid, etc etc..

A way to immunize Institutions from backfiring is to limit its own-goals, just like the no-sourcing here. To restrict to certain information and knowledge, focus on education, a ton of work there, and it aligns with baby-steps strategy. I dream of a workshop about drugs and get invited by schools to talk for 1 hour before a class room. An institution can frame such incentives. Not campaigning to just-say-no, rather a honest presenting of facts to the best we can.

I recall a German professor suggested a "driving licence" model a while back:

If you're interested, demonstrate your theoretical and practical knowledge for a given substance and you're good to go.

Fuck up, and your licence gets revoked.

Not your thing? No need to even bother yourself then.

In the light of this topic, empowerment is available for individuals, first and foremost.

The only problem with religion is all the religious nut-jobs that inevitably show up sooner or later, many of whom just see it as an endless source of gullible cash and ass..."That's right, kiss my purple anaconda baby! Here comes my big icaro now..."

I do not know about that professor but I certainly dig the idea, and an Institute for lessons - awarding a "license" should be possible.

From here:

Sure, we can brainstorm all we like, but the thing is, our cultural context is the prohibition. We're all counterculture. Rebels. Heathens. Witches. Criminals.

A "driving license" approach would sound nice if coming from a decriminalized cultural context. If you want to buy cocaine or LSD at the pharmacy, you need a card that says you are sufficiently learned in the addictological and psychological implications of these substances.

Some of us are already doing this in small scale. As someone mentioned, they "whet" their friends based on their attitude and knowledge, and if they aren't compatible, they won't get psychedelics. This is perfectly okay, from a self-defense and from a personal responsibility viewpoint too.

It does sound problematic if we're talking about some committee of (who exactly?) determining (based on what?) whether someone can grow and use psychedelics without going to prison or no.

Also, when a system emerges, people will emerge who circumvent or downright ignore the system. Even if they sell drugs in official dispensaries to people who hold the right certs, some of us will grow our own psilocybes and extract our own DMT. Based on historical precedent, systems and institutions hate being circumvented. I can totally envision a scenario where the very institution that stood at the forefront of decriminalization is lobbying aggressively for "effective enforcement against irresponsible DIYers and lay-cultivators".

Starting a for profit corporation and starting a non-profit church are two very different things. Perhaps it would be prudent to research the latter rather than the former, if that is your intention.


Yes, I want names of all the licensed, practicing lawyers that would LOVE to fight the battle for your legal psychedelic church for free.

It sounds like you could stand to review just how much time, money, and effort the churches that do hold legal rights invested into achieving that status.



What makes you think I'm not familiar with the commercial cannabis industry? What do weed stores have to do with temples? Are you starting a business or a religion? It might be a good idea to clarify your own intentions.



So it's silly to empower people to cultivate a personal relationship with psychedelics without intermediaries. People apparently need intermediaries, but since people can't afford to retreat in the Amazon, clearly the sensible thing to do is to build some kind of psychedelic mega church retreat center right here in the states with all the best experts and and a legal team willing to work for free to somehow win the drug war that has been waging for decades and to do it all using a book that explains how to court investors looking for a return on a for profit corporate model because that somehow applies to starting a church. Sure, who could miss the logic in that?


If we are talking the same language, I think our dialects may be from different regions.


Oh! Now that translation actually makes sense.


At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day. Clearly a US based psychedelic retreat center should be of the highest priority for that 50% of the worlds population that does not have internet access.

Yes, we need education beyond preaching to the choir, but somehow I think building a fancy retreat center in the US may not be the most appropriate way to do that. I don't think having some legal entity issue a card that says your qualified to eat mushrooms is in the best interest of anyone. We won the war already with open source teks. Psychedelics are accessible to anyone who would seek them out. We are right on the brink of legislative change to see the beginning of legal psychedelics, which is exciting, but makes little difference in a world where psychedelics are already literally everywhere and the knowledge to utilize them is readily accessible.

To anyone with a dog in this fight, my suggestion would be to maintain your own garden lest your personal relationship with the medicine be tainted, and then if you are still concerned about this thing on the political level, get involved. Donate your time, money, skills, knowledge, ideals, and optimism to the orgs that are already there on the front lines fighting the good fight.

The change is coming whether you help or not, if you want to have any kind of say at all in how it plays out, now is the time to either stand up or shut up.

with modern decentralized grow teks for cannabis , cactus and shrooms,
they have been over run already

Exactly.

You can't get there from here, as the saying goes. We have to start with small, careful steps. And one way to do that would be to start small, working with established, trusted shamans. And as reputation and positive experiences grows, so does the types of teachings, as well as the larger ceremonies. I would love to invite my favorite Sufi teacher to perform a dance ceremony for a group utilizing one of many possible entheogenic tools in low-medium dose, as I have had threshold visionary experiences doing such without entheogens. Given the right framework and context, many traditions would be interested in things like this. Many already do them quietly.

@dreamer042 I am sorry this open discussion pushes your buttons so sensitively and personally. I value your feedback. Thank you for dedicating your time and energy to this discussion.

My experience of life has informed me that if we want to make real and lasting change for greater good in this world, we need to work to change beliefs. To engage politics directly as a means to an end is fundamentally a misguided mistake. The only way to enact change is to change others' beliefs.

hmmm.......
im about self empowerment, and self change.
the proles will catch on thru example.

proles hate it when ya try and teach them. and its a buzzkill to try even.
do it first, let em see how cool it is,
and ,they will flock by their own locomotion.

Inspiration changes beliefs. Inspire others to follow their heart and directly unite with what is sacred.

What are proles?

Proletarians, aka 90% of the human race.

Everything resists change. As Newton showed a long, long time ago...

The vote seems to be at equilibrium with 5 in favor in proportion to 11 nays.

I suspect if this crowd were exclusively 40 yo and older (with years of psychedelic experience in youth) we would see a completely different split.

Why? Because for most that embark on the spiritual adventure that is inherent to these molecules, acceptance of the path is as inevitable as puberty and death. It's all fun and high times until life pushes back on you in unavoidable ways. This happens to everyone at some point. We wouldn't recognize it until we've been in the gutter of human suffering for a while.

Why else? Because what I am proposing is in everyone's best interest. It would directly and indirectly support safe use, harm reduction, reduce pointless legal entanglements, and potentially help open the doors to a renaissance era in the western hemisphere. It would also help advance the dialogue and union of philosophy and the science of plant medicines in a major, major way. Why? Because it empowers people to go back home and talk about their experiences openly, without fear of rejection, ostracism, or worse.

Why does anyone vote AGAINST their best interests? I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. Within my family lineage are old school ranchers that believe in two things only: guns and the bible. It's impossible to reason with them--even sitting together calmly, casually discussing life on the national and international scale--devolves into personal, logically fallacious arguments in no time at all. It's almost as if the more land you own, the more corrupt and self-deluding your internal policies and narrative may become. They exist in a vacuum, surrounding themselves with others that reinforce their beliefs, and limit exposure to other ideas. They hardly think for themselves, hardly think outside the box, and as a result, most everything they say, do, act on, feel, react to, and so on, is a parrot-like repetition of their social group's mantra. It's very insular. The price tag of hive mind mentality is a stifling of innovation and new ideas, and a closing down of the mind to novelty, to enlightenment, and to a greater sense of personal liberation. It's gut-wrenchingly painful to see politically charged peoples voting against their own best interests, but it happens everyday as automatically as putting clothes on and showing up to work. It's so weird... I believe it is fear of change. Fear of our inevitable impermanence.

Cannabis is about to reach critical mass in acceptance, and from there it's a matter of time before federal laws change. Cannabis legalization is likely to change a lot of opinions. When public opinion hinges on that, there's no telling what will happen.

Hardly anyone believed we'd see marriage equality happen the way it did. It was a shocking sweep of consensus opinion change in a very short period of time. There is no stopping the evolution of consciousness. It is something that happens and is directly experienced within the human domain.

Perhaps this idea is ahead of its time here on the Nexus. Perhaps we are not open to this at this stage of the game, but someday...

Thank you, everyone for voting and for soliciting your feedback. I am grateful for everyone who feels inspired to jump in and share how they feel. May your paths be blessed.