From the handful of times ( ok two handful of times )SWIM told me that he gets significantly different experiences when tripping off of DMT with eyes closed veruses eyes opened. He tells me that while both versiosn of the experience are very introspective, the eyes closed version tend to be more imaginative/fantastic; while the eyes open tends to be more observational/fantastic. In other words, while both versions are incredible and mind blowing, eyes closed seems to be more self controlled while the eyes open tends to be more like a ride. While this might seem obvious in retrospect and while reading this....anyone actually ever discuss or think about this? Do you guys ( or people you know) have a preference? And any thoughts on why there might be a difference in experience? Such as eyes open might be more distracting(focusing on the physical world too much)? Or eyes closed might be more false and jsut imagination(seeing what you want to see)? Or the opposite....eyes opened is more realistic (because its the world you see transformed and see what is not usually there) and eyes closed could be a meditative state that lets you explore beyond the physical world? Ive read experience upon experience and very rarely do people mention, or deduce from hints, wether their expereince was with eyes closed or open. I believe it would be significant to decipher what they got out of a trip dependng on wether the eyes were closed or opened. Or a third option. Have i never truely gotten a breakthrough and both expereinces are the same wether eyes are open or closed. Only a couple of times with eyes closed did i 'feel' like i was on truely another existence. It didnt look like a real world it jsut felt like a real world with pseudo-rrealistic visuals.

What kind of spice did SWIM have? How much did SWIM take? Someone who is not me wants to know.

Swim has always preferred closed eyes, hes been scared a few times with open eyes, but then hes forgot a few times and his eyes were closed, his eyes seemd to be able to see very clearly though lol with them shut . I dont think from swims experiences that these closed eyed visuals were his imagination, things were doing shit man, would he want them to be doings crazy shit swim isnt sure though im sure they were aware of what they were doing, lots of times, more so than a swimmer but then swims friend said, well they know what to do for you so go with it but then its ohh wait a minute, swim doesnt know but its always very positive for swim even the open eyed scary trips, but thats maybe just cos its went away and the afterglow is great. Swim has had the majority of experiences of being in space and totally in another place, forgetting how he got there and such, thinking this is death, totally in another place that seems more real than here real, hes opened his eyes after some trips and this reality has seemed so fake and plastic hes also never wanted to come back, all the love they give you, or maybe I give myself but I still think its totally external tbh Swim knows what swiy means about being able to pull back from it sort of have control, open your eyes and your back tho a few times thats not happened, totally no control in huge spaces beleiveing it to be with lots of beings passing through him and connecting with him in a ridiculous way!

[quote:bad5fb54a6="the_newcomer"]What kind of spice did SWIM have? How much did SWIM take? Someone who is not me wants to know.[/quote:bad5fb54a6] SWIMs extracts tend to be white or off white. He would usually smoke about 50 mg. Smoked out of the machine but less than 50 mg is actually smoked because after a few tokes SWIM just wants to enjoy the trip Also started using syrian rue tea before trips

[quote:1e624ff93c="oarguello"][quote:1e624ff93c="the_newcomer"]What kind of spice did SWIM have? How much did SWIM take? Someone who is not me wants to know.[/quote:1e624ff93c] SWIMs extracts tend to be white or off white. He would usually smoke about 50 mg. Smoked out of the machine but less than 50 mg is actually smoked because after a few tokes SWIM just wants to enjoy the trip Also started using syrian rue tea before trips[/quote:1e624ff93c] My friend has had 3 experiences with eyes closed, but wants to try the eyes open thing. He says it just always seems so natural to relax, close the eyes, and enjoy the show. He is also going to try the syrian rue extract he picked up tomorrow. How long are you waiting to ingest the rue after eating? He's read wait about 6 hours after eating. His is a powdered extract that he put into gelatin capsules. Can you share the differences SWIY experiences with using the rue, and if you've noticed SWIY has to use less spice.

[quote:8c33f34a00="newswimmer"][quote:8c33f34a00="oarguello"][quote:8c33f34a00="the_newcomer"]What kind of spice did SWIM have? How much did SWIM take? Someone who is not me wants to know.[/quote:8c33f34a00] [/quote:8c33f34a00] My friend has had 3 experiences with eyes closed, but wants to try the eyes open thing. He says it just always seems so natural to relax, close the eyes, and enjoy the show. He is also going to try the syrian rue extract he picked up tomorrow. How long are you waiting to ingest the rue after eating? He's read wait about 6 hours after eating. His is a powdered extract that he put into gelatin capsules. Can you share the differences SWIY experiences with using the rue, and if you've noticed SWIY has to use less spice.[/quote:8c33f34a00] This topi isnt really about rue, plenty of threads about it but i will answer anyway. i dont eat about 4 hours before hand. take in about 3 grams ( grinded and boiled into a tea, filter out solids). Smoke about 15-20 minutes later. Ive noticed my trips are happier, feel really euphoric afterwards, and the trip double or triples in time. W/O rue lasts about ten minutes....with rue lasts about 20-30 minutes. Ive read around that taking the seeds makes a trip last a couple of hours!!!! But i also heard taking seeds whole (or powdered whole) has other alkaloids that are toxic and make you vomit I agree its very natural to want to relax and have your eyes closed. SWIM thinks eyes open seems so much more real and and still get that feeling of being somewhere else and i hear voices but i dont see entitites. But eyes open only magnifies or alters whats you see while eyes closed seems more extraordinary and i can see the entitites talking to me. .

[quote:c305eabf79]SWIM thinks eyes open seems so much more real and and still get that feeling of being somewhere else and i hear voices but i dont see entitites[/quote:c305eabf79] Swim has seen some negative entities with eyes open, another time one looked like a hawkshead, like a demon but it was just indifferent to him, was as if it was just floating by, was ina dark room to see effects and it was a negative tone, swims friend freaked quite a bit, think he kind of grounded swim with his noises but he could see this thing really claerly, swims freind said it was all negative entitys, but his eyes were closed most of the time but swim could see this one demon looking thing clear as day, or a dark room lol Swims friend said it was like hundreds of negative entitys, and it was as if swim knew exactly what had sort of happened to his freind, his friend said it was as if he faced all his fears and got a lot out of it

My friend enjoy both and sometimes between (half-closed). Usually closed eyes but with half-closed eyes it makes thing also nice. [quote:bf4345d894]And any thoughts on why there might be a difference in experience?[/quote:bf4345d894] That's pretty easy : DMT cause a kind of storm in your visual cortex, that storm is interpreted and organized by other parts of your brain. With opened eyes, both signals are mixed (extern stimulation and endogen inputs) and the result seems significativly different. Because of the darwinian nature of live beeings, external signals may have a higher priority and therefore, external signals 'fade out' the inner imagery. It could be interresting to test in a perfectly dark room. I guess there would be very few differences between the two modes.

[quote:ed2ea210bc="Garulfo"]My friend enjoy both and sometimes between (half-closed). Usually closed eyes but with half-closed eyes it makes thing also nice. That's pretty easy : DMT cause a kind of storm in your visual cortex, that storm is interpreted and organized by other parts of your brain. With opened eyes, both signals are mixed (extern stimulation and endogen inputs) and the result seems significativly different. Because of the darwinian nature of live beeings, external signals may have a higher priority and therefore, external signals 'fade out' the inner imagery. [/quote:ed2ea210bc] Yeah half eyes closed is REALLY interesting to my friend as well. I agree, you think what DMT lets you see is purely direct realism...we see what we see because that 'data' is filtered though the DMT experience dictated by how our senses are transformed. but i think you would have to agree that there is a philosophical/psychological proprioception...not what we see but how do we interpret these visions. And i believe those interpertations also transfrom our already altered senses. As for the dark room. I think you would have to be pretty experienced to be ready for that. I read some thread in here about a guy who did that dark room and was scared shitless. Someone better prepared would be ok I would hypothesize, which would go along with my theory that our interpretations alter our senses. What is scary for one person could be harmless to another, ignored, or dealt with withot being scared. My FRIEND had a few run ins with nasty entities and was pretty scared the first time. Since then HE has been able to deal with them during the trip one way or another (pre-meditation, logic, rhetoric, moral convition, etc)

[quote:9b555da40c="Garulfo"]It could be interresting to test in a perfectly dark room. I guess there would be very few differences between the two modes.[/quote:9b555da40c] So true. My last experience was in an almost completly dark room. With my eyes closed I had strong visuals, when I opened them I was seeing exactly the same. It was a weird and awesome experience as having the feeling of transparent eyelids.

[quote:2a8d621e62]My FRIEND had a few run ins with nasty entities and was pretty scared the first time.[/quote:2a8d621e62] If you agree that theses entities are inner imagery, similar in nature to a dream, why should they be scaring ?

[quote:60d2278c30="Garulfo"][quote:60d2278c30]My FRIEND had a few run ins with nasty entities and was pretty scared the first time.[/quote:60d2278c30] If you agree that theses entities are inner imagery, similar in nature to a dream, why should they be scaring ?[/quote:60d2278c30] Some people might now be ready to face the beings of the various dimensions. IMO that is.

swim thinks that having closed eyes allows for better exploration due to a lack of information the brain naturally tries to process when his eyes are open. however, swim also finds it difficult to keep his eyes closed...they often get watery.

My friend just reported me another fun session with open eyes. As it happend sometimes, still he trying to guess why, he was perfectly aware of beeing awake in his room and not in another dimension while the whole room was morphed in a kind of 'cartoon' room. The chair was a at its place, just looking cartoon-smooth, same for any object in the room that were morphed in cartoon-style (but realistic). Corner of objects were rounded, colors were pastels... Later, as the trip intensified, the whole room was filled with billions of colored yarns. This remembered my friend about some Castaneda descriptions. This has no specific meaning nor interrest, it was just greatly fun

Hehe my friends curtains changed to many bright lights of various colours moving up and down on each pleat independant of the other pleats. As if off close encounters of the 3rd kind. A beautiful display. A curtain-jellyfish of the deep.

on breakthroughs, i've never had much control over being open or closed. but they tend to either be closed, or sort of a squinting fluttering sort of thing, lol.

[quote:0f54fc2055="Garulfo"][quote:0f54fc2055]My FRIEND had a few run ins with nasty entities and was pretty scared the first time.[/quote:0f54fc2055] If you agree that theses entities are inner imagery, similar in nature to a dream, why should they be scaring ?[/quote:0f54fc2055] Because we all have negative characteristics about ourselves. And sometimes they are scary because they are negative things you dont like about yourself or bury deep in your psyche becasue you dont want to deal/faace them...or like in a dream; negative things in your life that mannifest in some visual form ...but I f found facing them and dealing with them to be therapeutic. Kind of like how an alcoholic or drug addict cant really get help until they admit they have a problem and then can go ahead and deal with it....instead of being naieve about it. Kinda hard to deal with theese negative manifestations in a dream...but with DMT its like lucid dreaming so there is control.

[quote:1aff3d8985="therealwilson"]swim thinks that having closed eyes allows for better exploration due to a lack of information the brain naturally tries to process when his eyes are open. however, swim also finds it difficult to keep his eyes closed...they often get watery.[/quote:1aff3d8985] Exactly what i was looking for/asking about. Eyes closed is like an exploration...but of what? Your psyche manifested visually? Truely on another dimension/planet? Or something as incredible as your psyche is on another dimension....as well as everyone elses....able to explore your own and others??? I believe 75% that what we see and hear is our psyche... and starting to believe that other peoples/entitties psyche resides in this dimension and are trying to explore or communicate with my psyche . I am not afraid to see my psyche and explore it...postive or negative...but there are some things that i see or hear that are simply not me...for example while exploring my mind , all of a sudden someone will ask what am i doing here or who am i... or more abstractly an entity explaining something i never heard about or had interest in.

[quote:3a8bb3b480="Garulfo"]My friend just reported me another fun session with open eyes. As it happend sometimes, still he trying to guess why, he was perfectly aware of beeing awake in his room and not in another dimension while the whole room was morphed in a kind of 'cartoon' room. The chair was a at its place, just looking cartoon-smooth, same for any object in the room that were morphed in cartoon-style (but realistic). Corner of objects were rounded, colors were pastels... Later, as the trip intensified, the whole room was filled with billions of colored yarns. This remembered my friend about some Castaneda descriptions. This has no specific meaning nor interrest, it was just greatly fun [/quote:3a8bb3b480] That happens to me EVERYTIME with eyes opened! I definitely get that visual of everything looking plastic and cartoon'ish. Like every color is more vibrant and made of some kind of pastel oil, everything looks really smooth and plastic...and not figuratively plastic like fake...but like literally everything is made of plastic and somehow more real looking than normal life. A lot of visuals i hear about from other people are the opposite....fractal, sharp...Only when i focus on a particular object, or close my eyes do i start seeing patterns that sharp Once again i need to get out of my room and into nature...lol

[quote:1480fe5cd2="oarguello"][quote:1480fe5cd2="Garulfo"]My friend just reported me another fun session with open eyes. As it happend sometimes, still he trying to guess why, he was perfectly aware of beeing awake in his room and not in another dimension while the whole room was morphed in a kind of 'cartoon' room. The chair was a at its place, just looking cartoon-smooth, same for any object in the room that were morphed in cartoon-style (but realistic). Corner of objects were rounded, colors were pastels... Later, as the trip intensified, the whole room was filled with billions of colored yarns. This remembered my friend about some Castaneda descriptions. This has no specific meaning nor interrest, it was just greatly fun [/quote:1480fe5cd2] That happens to me EVERYTIME with eyes opened! I definitely get that visual of everything looking plastic and cartoon'ish. Like every color is more vibrant and made of some kind of pastel oil, everything looks really smooth and plastic...and not figuratively plastic like fake...but like literally everything is made of plastic and somehow more real looking than normal life. A lot of visuals i hear about from other people are the opposite....fractal, sharp...Only when i focus on a particular object, or close my eyes do i start seeing patterns that sharp Once again i need to get out of my room and into nature...lol[/quote:1480fe5cd2] same thing happens to me. i think i would describe as cell shading like in that pc game XIII or in a scanner darkly. its as if i have looked at somthing which is many shades of one colour and my brain has taken an average colour reading and made it all one colour therefore making it cartoon like. mind you this is only eyes open with a small dose like 20mg. any more than that who knows if my eyes are open or not.