smoking the seeds has always been a total waste of time for swim, just way to harsh... maybe while drinking though... hmmm.

by the way jorkest your great man... crack me up.
swIm loves this thread.
Ok SOOOO... SWim is a harry potter fan and so decided to make a jaguar juice potion...
Fifth of vodka
cacoa Nibs ( high theobromine content and ability to kill the flavour of the seeds and enhance effects of the tryptamines.)
20 seeds ( enough for 2 seeds a shot)
Raw ginger root ( for the tummy, works about as good for nausea as medications)
all blended in a slurry and left to sit...
and Viola... it sat for a few days and took on this amazing color. It no longer smells like hellish vicla beans... strained with a coffee filter.
you have your booze, your tummy fixer, the seeds and some taste reducer/trip enhancer all mixed into one!
and is awaiting trials...
one might wish for a beer chaser though...

I microwaved one seed for about 40 seconds so I could remove the shell and crush the inside.. I smoked it with some wild dagga and felt the heat, pressure and mild naseau (I put a slice of ginger in water beforehand and drank the water), but it only lasted a minute then subsided and no other effects were experienced.

Does microwaving it destroy the bufotenin or should I try more?

Wow! You should pop 3 d. stramonium seeds just before downing that slurry! What are your ratios? Can't wait to hear back!

Peace
-idt

I love the taste too

its two seeds per shot of vodka. swIm needs to get some Datura seeds for sure. But Swim was hoping that the ginger would be effective enough for that purpose, with just two. One has not been doing much nausea wise for folks so far.

hmm..

3 seeds had me battle 12 hours for my soul. Datura is serious.
i'd love to be talked out of it- even as an admixture, have you guys experienced any side effects or negative consequences from eating these or Datura seeds?
I've read that tropanes are preferable to smoke, and that ingestion could be extremely dangerous.

This is very interesting stuff.

Can you elaborate on that? 1 seed somehow made me feel dizzy and not "myself". Datura inoxia seems to be very different though,...

I've done tons of research on this subject.

What kind of Datura are you talking about? That’s certainly not Datura stramonium or Datura inoxia. It's completely impossible to get that kind of effect from 3 Datura stramonium seeds. You'd need 50-100 or more for those kinds of mental effects. 3 Datura stramonium seeds only contains up to 210 micrograms of tropane alkaloids. 3 Datura inoxia seeds contain up to 120 or so micrograms of tropane alkaloids. That's too small for those kinds of effecs. You need at least 1000 micrograms (usually 5000-10,000 or more) for those kinds of effects.

Some Datura, not Datura stramonium or Datura inoxia, can produce effects like that from a few seeds because their seeds are gigantic. If you got effects like that, it cannot be Datura stramonium or Datura inoxia seeds. They are too small and don't contain enough alkaloids to do much at all at even 10 seeds.

I've read that some folks seem to be hypersensitive to tropane alkaloids and do react with halluzinations. It's at least on the package insert of some medicine containing tropane alkaloids. But the chance seems to be something like 1:10.000 ...well, don't quote me on that.

For the normal person though, 400 micrograms of tropane alkaloids are considered the low end safe dosage commonly used for motion sickness. 800 is the high end. 3 seeds of either Datura inoxia or Datura stramonium cannot contain 400 micrograms. It's impossible.

Hypersensitivity is a possibility for all drugs, not just tropane alkaloids. In fact, even aspirin can kill people who are hypersensitive to it. That doesn't mean I shouldn't use aspirin just because a few people are hypersensitive to it. That's the nature of all drugs.

Scopolamine, found in Datura inoxia, is used by NASA to treat motion sickness. It's the most effective motion sickness medication there is. Hyoscyamine is used for other similar stomach problems. Both are given to thousands of people everyday.

I've seen it mentioned in studies that there are NO such sensitivities, and that scopolamine has never caused effects like that in the doses prescribed, and only causes such effects when it’s abused or combined with other drugs.

I can’t help but be very skeptical of such claims that 3 seeds can do what 50-250 do in the normal person when I can't kind studies to support the claim. That doesn't mean hypersensitivity doesn't happen though. I'm just very skeptical. My gut reaction is, it's either a scare tactic, more rumors being spread around again as if they were real, or an unusual drug combination that caused such effects.

It's very hard for me to believe, especially since so many well known trustable SWIM's here have personally tried 3 seeds of both D. inoxia and D. stramonium and also given them to their friends and had seen no such effect like that ever happen. It's just hard for me to believe. I'm not saying anyone is lying, I'm just saying I'm very skeptical. SWIM has been using Datura stramonium seeds for a very long time and has given them out to many people any never saw anything adverse happen at the 3 seed dosage. Never.

I believe what you say is true. I just wanted to state, that his reaction could be possible, even though it seems very unlikly.

Datura Stramonium->
I had in total 9 seeds over a week. Never more then 3-5 were chewed or smoked at one time. I meditated with the plants for an hour before asking permission of their seed. This was the 4th entheogenic patch that I was invited to- intuitively guided to by the plants.
The effects for me were culminative.
I surely am one of the sensitive ones, however later in that week I met a devil in my front yard (after humbly requesting 'alliance' and she told me all about Datura. I'v worked with spirits, evocation and diffrent kinds of majik for 15 years and have never been so frightened with the implications of a working.
I've never felt the need for caution as strongly in my life than when working with Datura.
Mind you, what I claim to be the effects of the Datura were later experienced in conjuction with smoking pot..
I don't mean to scare monger- i'd love to work with tropanes without fearing a life long spiritual shackling to such a power giver. I just can't get my head around it. I concluded that Datura was the allie of an another age, and that I might have to stick to brugs flowers as an admixture.

I still remember the shape the tree in my front yard took as the spirit came to speak with me. And il never forget hearing her words out loud, they felt like dirt wet with oil- resounding through my garden "you just don't know what you're fucking with do you, boy?" I've never had un-reality presented so cleanly over the top of my own habituated consensus. It was a stark ravingly obscene hallucination.

Then again, maybe if you just eat a few to get better visuals and less nausea you'll be fine (shrugs)

Did you just eat the seeds?
If you combined the seeds with other parts of the plant or if you combined them with other tropane-containing plants like mandrake...
In large amounts, tropanes can cause true states of delirium. If you took something like mandrake along with the datura seeds, then you could have gotten more of the stuff then you wanted.
3-5 seeds is a small amount. Maybe you where hyper-sensitive to it. it does happen, that's why medicine's always have this disclaimer with them.

he said chewed,or smoked if he did smoke datura seed powder that could be more dangerous than ingestion.

Or Belladonna, Henbane, or others of the Nightshade family. I've eaten as many as 10 d. inoxia seeds with little more than a mild euphoria that may or may not have been placebo. I've only eaten a max of four d. stramonium, but they are even smaller than inoxia.

I will note that the original, prescription only, motion sickness patches that were put on the market in the 1980's contained scopolomine as the active ingredient, and I do know that some people (a minuscule number) did experience delirium and hallucinations. I believe this small sample was typically people with very low body mass if I remember correctly. None the less, those patches contained very small amounts of scopalamine, but enough to be active in treating motion sickness, and enough to create hallucinations in a small sample of folks.

With that being said, I agree with 69ron on the skepticism. I'm not sure that GreyArea is familiar with the extensive work we've done here as a group with d. stramonium seeds. I'm only speculating however.

I still have one of these old patches somewhere in one of my keepsakes boxes. I'll see if I can find it and get the actual qty of scopolamine listed on the lable. I was just learning about Datura when these came out and I was shocked to find one of my fathers prescriptions for the patches and seeing "Scopolamine" as the active ingredient, so I saved it!

Peace
-idt

So... instead of using an oven, is microwaving cebil seeds in order to remove the shell destroy the bufo?

How many seeds should I try to be smoking?

Are SWIYs removing the shell when mixing it with alcohol, or just eating it whole, shell and all? Will I still fully benefit if I microwave the seeds, remove the shell, and just eat/mix the innards with alcohol?

I see no problem with eating the seed whole. I had no problems doing this and I had proven these particular seeds to be toxin heavy and light on the bufo.

I tried 2 cebil seeds last night, with 3 datura stramonium seeds.. felt a little nausea, very slight waves of euphoria, and mild cev's. Was quite nice but I would want to go deeper. May try again with more seeds next time. I just chewed and swallowed; I wonder if chewing and holding in the mouth would be better for nausea and effects?
I also smoked some enhanced Calea before going to bed and had some crazy vivid dreaming, and was sweating a lot!! Maybe the toxins in the seeds caused the sweating??

Jorkest had an idea for making a tincture from the seeds... sounds promising.

thanks for reminding me balaganist....what SWIMs idea is to defat with acetone in a soxhlet like extractor...or you could just soak the seeds in acetone a few times..but with the extractor you could really get all the fats out...then remove the acetone..and then use ethanol to extract the bufotenine salts and whatnot...then you could extract some datura seeds and mix it in with the mix if you wanted to..but be careful of dosing..will try this out someday

how much alcohol did you drink balag?