FINALLY! Here is the most comprehensive work I've found on the traditional uses of this plant and its relatives! This whole work looks excellent, but specific oral ingestion details can be found starting on Page 86, about half way down. Search for "Mario Califano (1976)". Hopefully we can all get some answers from this!

There are some excellent detailed spread sheets following this information as well, discussing the natives of various regions and the uses of Anadenanthera. This is the best scientific documentation I've found anywhere. I'm going to have to buy this book:

http://books.google.com/...p;ct=result&resnum=6

Peace
-idt

I own that book. It's full of lots of information, but a little boring to read. I read that whole book and it only has a few sentences that actually describe what the experience is like.

I expected more. I expected detailed trip reports, detailed dosage information, and detailed yopo preparations, but it’s not to be found anywhere in that book. Very disappointing in that respect, but otherwise a very good book to have. There’s lots of historical information, information about active alkaloids found in the seeds, lots of information on bufotenine tests, etc. It’s a must have book, but it lacks practical information like proper yopo snuff dosage, oral dosage, proper ingredient ratios for making snuff, trip reports, etc.

And idtravlr's sails hang flaccid and lifeless as if trying to operate in vacuum of space...

I enjoyed that book very much. It is very comprehensive. While it does not discuss much on the subjective effects of these snuffs and bufotenine it covers just about everything else and then some. Great pharmacological data as well as historical and ethnobotanical. There are great pictures of snuff paraphernalia as well.

It's a must have book if your interested in Anadenanthera or bufotenine. That's for sure. I was disappointed because I was looking more for recipes, dosage information, trip reports, etc., and I kept reading and reading and hoping to stumble upon it somewhere hidden in the book and was very disappointed to not find that information. But pretty much everything else about Anadenanthera is in that book. It has an amazing amount of information. It’s like owning an encyclopedia devoted solely to Anadenanthera, with a few pages missing.

Yeah, I get what you guys are saying. I'll definitely still order the book. You guys have likely seen this too, but in case you haven't, here's a nice little white paper type guide on making and using the snuff that I came across. SWIM will likely experiment with this in the coming weeks, while adding d. stramonium into the mix to try and combat nausea.

Here's the link: http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/var003.htm

Peace
-idt

Swim gave a compadre a seed to chew with a beer at a party... he had a great time. he said it was clear and like LSD a bit. He said that it was a littl ebit nauseating... and he only drank half a beer on an IPA. it lasted quite a few hours as well. and was really great he said.

nice Dorge

SWIM will most certainly have to try this out

That's cool! SWIM also shared his seeds with a friend. His friend chewed up a 1.5 seeds and had very pleasant bufo effects from it, and also said that he quite enjoyed it. It's great to hear validation from others.

Peace
-idt

idtravlr, this was with out the datura seeds correct?
it is really great to hear that people are having positive effects and that its not just a wyrd thing happing with "some" people.
SWIM thinks that there is defintely something to the anti-vasoconstriction effects... swim also would like to brew some beer or at least make an infused brandy with vilca... measured out by the glass or bottle for singular dosage.
Swim is dreaming of a black berry brandy bottle with just enough seeds in it for one person per shot. swim has also thought of an infused vodka with seeds as well as ginger to aid in settleing the stomache.
Swim knows that people tend towards excess in the face of intoxication and fears that datura seeds in an alcohol base could be disastrous.

Well, SWIM has found that below 2 strong seeds, no datura is necessary as long as he is just chilling and not too active. His friend that did the 1.5 seeds did not use datura, and to my recollection, did not report any nausea. When swim uses 2 seeds or more he likes to use 2 to 4 d. stramonium seeds. It gives him no nausea and seems to enhance the visuals. I suppose there is no reason not to use the datura, unless SWIY's supply is limited.

The infused wine or brandy sounds extraordinary! SWIM would like to try some if you indeed brew some up! I agree that you wouldn't want to include the datura directly into the wine, but you could just chew some up before consuming the wine. Also keep in mind that high doses of a. colubrina seeds can be dangerous / toxic as well, so **controlled** administration of an infused alcohol is a must for sure! Like you said, people tend to go big when booze is involved. You wouldn't want "That Guy" at your party to grab the infused wine, beer, or vodka and start chugging it to show his manly abilities! We all know about "That Guy"!

Peace
-idt

Definitely. The only time its good to add datura to the drink is when it’s a single dose of 3-5 seeds and you know no one is going to take more than one serving. Otherwise skip it. The last thing you want is people getting delirious from too much datura.

Ginger is good to add to the drink as an anti-nausea additive. People can take a lot of ginger and they will be just fine. Although ginger is not nearly as effective as an anti-nausea herb as Datura stramonium seeds are. Used together, the anti-nausea effect is even greater and less Datura stramonium seeds can be used. But I still don’t recommend adding the seeds to the drink.

You might consider making some anti-nausea capsules to pass around composed of 500 mg of ground ginger root with 20 mg of ground Datura stramonium seeds (about 3 seeds). That would be 1 dose, effective enough for most cases. 2 should be more than enough, and still be very safe.

swims primary interest is allways in regards to group ceremony... even if its a lax group social cohesion celebratory one. datura might have to be missed unless in serious group work or one on one where people can be more closely monitored.
One thing swim was thinking of today after talking to swims friend... is that perhaps the nausea does not absolutely need to be avoided. Swim noticed from his many years of doing group vilca ceremonies that nausea like in aya ceremonies can be beneficial as a cathartic purge and an essential part of the healing process, though not absolutely necessary. Swim also noticed that vomiting occurs when people need to vomit, and that normally seems to occur when people are not paying attention, or are not allowing the seeds to guide them in their process.

Swim knows that smoked changa can be fine when alcohol is involved, and swim would wonder if smoking JUST a 10x enhanced leaf of caapi would be effective in increasing the effects. caapi has been taken traditionally during vilca ingestion even combined with chica, some ethnobotanists have reported total "drug" binges where all of the above were ingested. seeing how the caapi alkaloids go straight to the brain by the pyrolization of the herb it may be effective in combination with the oral ingestion with alcohol.
worth a shot indeed...

swims freind chewed aup a seed whiel drinking last night and had a wonderful evening...

wow...nobody warned SWIM of how gross these seeds taste...also a question...how necessary is it to take off the coating...

btw...SWIM just ate one seed...almost puked as soon as he bit into it...absolutely horrid tasting...well not that bad..but it caught him off guard..

SWIM likes the taste.

maybe it was just surprising...but wow that one seed was insanely powerful....just eating one seed with two datura seeds is way stronger than 115mg bufotenine plus 3 datura seeds...datura s. that is...the only issue was the mild nausea then the purge..which was actually a very nice purge...and it was also from the taste of the burps..he was like fuck this uncomfortable feeling..just get it out...and so he had a wonderful quiet complete purge..and right at that moment..he started noticing slight visuals and then the wonderful body high crept in...and also the amazingly clear thought process with heightened thinking power and also a feeling of contentment and excitement

he was also drinking beer at the time..no vasoconstriction at all...even though SWIM likes mild vasoconstriction now for some reason...feels cool..

but anyways...maybe the flavor will start to grow on him...but his body usually reacts that way to most drugs that he tastes...almost instant purging with everything from dmt, to harmaloids, to phenethylamines, blotter paper, mushrooms, cacti...the only thing that doesnt bother his is smoked spice and smoked anything really...its a strange thing...the body revolting a substance..but the mind/soul making the body do it anyway..glak

SWIM doesn't mind the taste of DMT either, kind of weird plastic-like, but not nauseating. I guess it's a personal thing. SWIM is used to bitter tasting things I guess.

Were the seeds raw or toasted? They taste MUCH BETTER if toasted.

1 typical seed weighs about 150-200 mg. At 12% bufotenine (the highest concentration found), that’s 18-24 mg. That’s enough for light visual effects for authentic bufotenine.

Jorkest, maybe your bufotenine is damaged? When taking bufotenine sublingually, 100 mg is A LOT, and should give you a serious trip. Check out Ott's reports. SWIM found 100 mg to be a heavy trip just like Ott.

When SWIM chews the seeds, 1 seed is maybe as strong as 10 mg of the bufotenine he has and the effects are nearly identical.

its very possible...the thing is it tastes and feels like bufotenine..the initial effects..when smoked..its very strange really..

SWIM is going to try smoking the seed...

and yes it was a raw seed...he can imagine that toasting it will make it taste better..

Sweet! Let us know the smoking goes. I'd suggest toasting it first, but I've never tried smoking them. I've read that the vasoconstriction is pretty strange on the lungs / chest. That fact alone has made me a little weary of smoking them, but I'd be curious to know how your experience goes.

BTW - I kinda like the taste too. It's nutty and earthy.

Peace
-idt