Last night SWIM got to try this combination (also his first time with THH). He took 30mg of Tetrahydroharmine HCL sublingually (a fairly light dose). He felt mild effects similar to the initial hints of oncoming LSD. It was pleasant and mildly euphoric, but he also noted an increase in body temp and sweating. At about 35 minutes SWIM hit the vaporized DMT. SWIM found it surprisingly MORE difficult to break through. It seemed that the effects came on slower, giving more opportunity for additional "tokes", but still had problems reaching breakthrough.

On a more positive note however, SWIM did find the experience to be MUCH more psychedelic overall, and the experience was clearly sustained for at least an additional 10 or 15 minutes. The CEV's were spectacularly more sharp, colorful, and intense than SWIM typically experiences on sub-breakthrough doses, and SWIM even experienced visions in addition to the visuals. This was very very nice, and SWIM could recollect much more of the experience when he returned.

SWIM eventually got to a breakthrough on his third attempt, but it was very brief. It seemed that just as he broke through to one of his favorite magic worlds, he snapped back and was back inside the veil before he could have a substantial experience beyond the veil.

SWIM feels more study with this combination is required. He's not sure if the THH was related to his breakthrough troubles, or if it was just one of those nights. He's curious how a higher dose of THH might effect the experience.

Peace
-idt

Did you find it easier to think clearly with the combination?

I have read a report that said that harmala + dmt combo will build up a tolerance that lasts longer than the usual 30 minute DMT tolerance.

Maybe that is part of the issue. I have not tried this out for myself, and have only heard it mentioned once, so do not take it as fact, just as an observation.

Yes, SWIM said he did, but almost too much so. It was very difficult for him to leave his body or experience ego-death. He did have much more clarity of vision and absolutely had more recollection after the fact, but disassociation from his human body was nearly impossible. SWIM typically likes to be "force fed" his journey, but the additional clarity kind of felt like SWIM had to "feed" himself a little bit (I guess because he was so aware). He's really not sure how else to describe it.

acolon - Recovery time did not seem to be an issue for SWIM (although this has NEVER been a factor for him). He could pretty much go back-to-back without any problems, but he just experienced a very slow onset each time. Instead of riding the bullet train to hyperspace it felt more like a standard locomotive... "Delayed onset hyperspace"...?

What are SWIY's experiences with this combo? Similar?

My understanding is that THH is more of an SSRI than a RIMA, is that correct? Isn't the primary harmala RIMA harmine?

The first few times SWIM tried this combo, he felt that it buffered the experience, but he can't really say this has been the case since. It definitely adds to the body load, substantially stretches the afterglow, and for SWIM at least, is very conducive to many repeated travels. Repeated hits, in fact, create a definite cumulative effect. Enough of them back-to-back-to-back produce a very LSD-like experience (but much more alien) for up to a couple of hours. Since the first few times, SWIM has found he can break through as easily with as without.

Tread lightly with regard to increasing the dosage. SWIM finds 25-30mgs to be the sweet spot, and 45 minutes post-sublingual, the ideal time for 1st launch. 40mgs can get uncomfortable.

Yep. SWIM agrees with all of this, absolutely. The long afterglow was really, really nice because it was still very heavy visually for the duration. Did SWIY also have visions mixed in the experience?



Does SWIY mean the THH is uncomfortable at this level, or the total experience (spice + THH) is uncomfortable at this level?

Peace
-idt

Well, how do you really differentiate once they're both in play? I mean, there's nothing uncomfortable about THH on its own (at least at the dosages SWIM has experienced), but add a healthy dose of spice to the mix and... great googlymoogly. SWIM just finds there to be a very fine line between perfect mix and grinding, uncomfortable dysphoria - and even more so with sublingual caapi copy. He tried 35mgs of cc one night and found it utterly blissful, then 40mgs the next for what was hands down his most unpleasant spice experience by a mile.

SWIM wouldn't really characterize anything he's had with spice (with or without harmalas) as visions - meaning nothing linear or following a narrative - but the caapi copy (and to a lesser degree, THH alone) most definitely add an introspective element - both in the peak and especially afterwards. That, along with a very toxic feeling body load and dysphoric confusion, was just too much for SWIM at 40mgs. He was, however, also smoking a changa made with jungle spice and very potent indica (and he's not a regular weed whacker nor particularly fond of the jungle), so there were a lot of variables he wasn't too used to contributing to what turned into an ugly couple of hours.

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My two cents are that I agree with Art concerning the sweet-spot. Sometimes less is more. I know if I have too much harmine(usually a harmine/thh combo if I have no CC) that the trip gets 'squashed', flattened out, less peak/greater duration. This happened on rue once and nearly freaked me out. I didn't know why I wasn't 'launching', so I kept spicing. DAMN. It comes on and lasts and in that one case my conciousness split into two distinct parts. A frightened me and a calm me. Anyway we talked it out and I eventually came down.

The point is that you need to experiment with your own body's sensitivity to different doses and ratios. Sometimes I get a 'no vacancy' sign when spicing if I have timed the launch wrong or had too much/little of a particular harmala. I tell my GF with a frown on my face that "they wouldnt let me come play".

My suggestion is to get some CC and work with it a bit. Thh is great and I need it and it alone for some journies but the CC wraps me up in a warm blanket and I feel embraced by all of the mothers and aunts and sisters of the universe. It is one of the most comforting experiences I know. I usually come back with tears in my eyes from the emotion. I don't get that from THH alone. And as a man in US society, tears are hard to come by. I try to take advantage of them when do come. Toss out all that unhealthy baggage.

Sorry to hijack. I hope it was useful.

Nutshell: Get CC, start w 20mg, wait 'bout 20 min (thats what I do, seems to be my sweet spot, but Arts way will work too, I'm sure) and vape away!



Peace all,

J
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Hey I didn't want to start a new thread so what does Caapi Copy mean? I know that Caapi is harmala right? but isit the same as CC?

Caapi Copy is a brand name for extracted b. caapi harmala alkaloids. It's sold by Flowing Visions and it's a combination of harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine in a similar ratio to what is found in the pure caapi vine.

NOTE: FV sells it for the purpose of making fluorescent paint, and is not intended for ingestion. So don't ingest it! Remember, we are all living in fantasy land here!!!

Hope that helps!

Has there been any further experimentation with the THH? Zues got some THH from FV and has never tried it before. He would appreciate any other info on the THH experience before and after the spice.

SWIMS SWIY tried THH with changa... a different batch much different plant additives... then the one swims swiy tried previously... it was itneresting... he did not sync into the experience well swim could tell... swiy was distracted by the visuals which swiy reported where much stronger... they where very beautiful but swiy felt they lacked insight and guidance as it had been before with concentrated caapi leaf. Reminded swim of swims trip to the grand canyon real pretty but with that many tourists it seemed to have lost its majesty... lol any way... the THH seemed to with him reduce the sort of insightfulness that Caapi leaf alone can produce... swim wonders if it is harmine that ;ends more of that quality.