I think so yeah, gums and resins that bind to the salts, an initial ethanol boil seems to remedy this partly. Fibres were also noticed in the tan crystalline substance prior to wash.
I think infinidulum has also touched on this here https://www.dmt-nexus.me...73#post143273#post143273 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_compound however even the white substance that has been cleaned is pulled by the solvent but all doesnt dissolves which suggests saturation. Guess is that it just isnt that soluble in toluene there is little info to be found on the solubility of betacarbolines..

End result:
Powder unable to be cleaned of sodium carbonate due to being soluble in basic water and only slightly soluble in toluene once cleaned.
Naptha was evaporated to reveal off white specks some up to 3mm however was sat in a clear oil.
Once scraped up the white substance congealed in the oil and became a brown-black slime, obviously its all still contaminated..
This could be due to no defat done before basifying..
So in short for acacia phyllodes a de-gum AND a de-fat are advisable also much filtering before the base is added.

Some sun flower oil was tested to see if organic plant matter would fall out of suspension after rigorous shaking but unfortunately it just hangs there.
The majority does eventually separate but it still keeps hold of much too much.
Also noticed was that during the acidic phase the gums were in solution more than when in a basified solution, sodium carbonate was used to get the solution to a pH of 11-12.
The gums almost instantly precipitated as a brown gloopy liquid with a consistency of gravy. Sodium carbonate doesnt seem a strong enough base either to remedy this it could well be that the pH is too low and causes the gums/tars to be in this state.

It supports nens findings that an initial wash of phyllodes with a strong alcohol is of great benefit in removing the gums and tars, a no brainer if the space and time allows.
A quick rigorous defatting at the acid phase with sunflower oil would also help clean up as it seems to pull the more polar gloop that filtering or naphtha doesnt remove.
Does anyone know what the red substance is that colours the solution?

Hello I am from Australia and have access to many a. maidenii trees. I've recently attempted a bark extraction but now have learned that you can achieve the same from the leaves(which i will be testing tomorrow). So if the leaf extraction works, i will be picking lots apparently they only contain DMT during summer.

My "results" from a 50g A. Maidenii extraction using Cyb's TEK.

Everything went nicely the whole way thru(i wont bore you with details I got to the pull part and I did 4 pulls. The naphtha almost instantly turned golden yellow then milky off-white once I put it in my freezer. When I went to remove it I found something odd, I'm not really sure if this is normal... But the best way I can explain what happened is this... I took out the dish from my freezer and there were floating or swimming things that looked like very soaked toilet paper in very small shreds. They were floating toward the edges, touching the edges and being repelled away! I tried as best as i could to remove the naphtha using an eye dropper but they fluid was full of floaty bits. Eventually i had dried what I could but a lot got sucked up the eye dropper... When I left the dish to dry on by the fan, i left my room to get something, came back and my room smelled VERY nice! Like Cyb's TEK says, new sneakers or flowers. Not super potent like a flower, nicely scented! I tried to scrape up whatever I could but was not successful, it was quite thick and didnt want to leave the glass.

I must have done something wrong but im not sure what. I am not very experienced with extractions but I am trying and putting in the time I am also working with trees that I find myself which, so far, 8 have been the wrong tree... They all look so similar in Aus! But I DID get this confirmed as a. Maidenii so that pleases me

I will attempt the leaves tomorrow and post results.
If you know where I failed I am more than all ears! I am so close!


Much love! Happy extracting!

-Halfhead

gotta be brief as I am just leaving for work but good luck with the maidenii extraction and good on you for using phyllodes (much more sustainable) .. remember that maidenii has differen't types.. some inaactive, some low yielding, and some high yielding so if you get a negative result its likely just the type of maidenii you have. pics of active maidenii can be found in the acacia info thread

I`d definitely try it

What were you thinking, extracting with xylene or limonene and then FASA/FASI on that?

Australia, Accuminata

I have extracted many times from Accuminata and find simple vinegar perfect for the a/b process.

Attached is a result of an A/B pulled with d-limo then a FASW on 40g of an a.longifolia branch (full size healthy tree, pruned during seeding)

This is a bit of a mystery.

Limo went very milky, this was then back salted with FASW.

The water was evaporated to leave a white crystaline structure as can be seen. When scraped it became a light tan powder
(roughly 300-600mg it wasnt weighed).

The powder was dissolved in water (didnt dissolve very well at first at all so more water had to be added) and then dropper wise sodium carbonate solution was added to try to precipitate the alkaloids. A couple of days later NaOH was added dropwise in case the pH hadnt been raised high enough.

A small amount of something precipitated over 7 days in the fridge. This was filtered but was too fine for the coffee filters and passed right through. Possibly too much water was used and most stayed dissolved in solution?

To try and extract any spice 15ml of warm naptha was used. Possibly too little for the size of the solution (roughly 40-70ml)

This was shaken vigorously on a regular basis. The naptha was removed and evaporated down in open air to enable freeze precipitation. Placed in the freezer for 3 days and a couple of white blobs formed. At room temperature in the NPS they turned to amber oil.
The NPS was evaporated completely to leave a white paint-like blob. Possibly contamination from the jar lids. None was bioassayed for health and safety reasons. The basic water sadly had to be thrown as time had ran out for any further experimenting.

So it seems the majority of whatever was extracted was highly soluble in d-limo judging by the milky colour it turned.
Formed a generous amount of fumarates, but wasnt soluble in that amount of naptha and was soluble in that amount of basic water.

Do flavanoids form fumarates? Could this have been betacarboline alkaloids? I know without proper lab testing it cant be known
what it was but does any of the above information give clues as to what this substance could be?

Another acacia lesson.. seems d-limo and FASW is a good way to extract alkaloids from this plant without having to use toxic unpleasant solvents and maybe a paste and pull with anhydrous IPA could result in a full spectrum extract.

Its hard to say what it is, maybe worth getting an erlich test kit to see if its tryptamines first. May well just be oil but maybe NMT/alkaloid mix..
If you want to just try anyway then dissolve in IPA and evaporate or if its DMT you are after specifically then use warm naptha and recrystallize as per the common methods.

Might be an idea to crop your fingers out of the picture too..

Ah Ah ! We got your fingerprint now !

the Simple PHYLLODE TEK

this is presented in the interests of sustainability (because of the damage done to trees for their bark), and for those who are growing acacias and want them to live long and happy lives..


essentially, a few reported findings of low percentages of alkaloids in phyllodes in the past (by Mulga and others) and phyllode extraction failures are probably due to failure on Step 1 of this procedure

1. Thoroughly DRY the phyllodes, by sun. fan or oven. What will interfere with extraction is chlorophyll and volatile fatty acids.
2. Chop or grind by hand, blender etc.
3. Cover in mixture 50/50 distilled water and white vinegar, and boil vigorously for 30-40 minutes. Save liquid and repeat this another 2-3 times. Combine the 3-4 liquid fractions, filter judiciously, reduce volume by boiling till slightly thick, leave to sit overnight.
4. Very gradually add NaOH. The solution will first become cloudy, then dark again. Do not go far beyond this point. In other words, do not overbasify. The pH should be between 11-12.5 ideally, if a pH meter is available. Also add a small amount of fairly pure sodium chloride (salt). Allow to cool.
5. Add an equal volume of clean (100%) non-polar solvent (naptha, limonine etc) and shake vigorously for several minutes. Allow to settle into two layers, sometimes a few hours. If does not properly separate add small amounts of NaOH to break emulsion. Separate solvent and wash by adding salty water/NaOH. Separate again, and evaporate solvent. And then be very patient. A few days if necessary. Resulting solid, wax or oil is the crude alkaloids, usable.

and that’s all that’s required, it need not be any more complicated than this..do not substitute other acids or bases unless you are well experienced in extraction, and willing to experiment..just pay attention the whole time

if someone can’t follow this procedure, they should not be doing extractions..
.

Acacias can respond well to careful and sensitive pruning, so the gardner can enjoy their long grown trees, and their inner joy.

That's some good bush wisdom nen, thank-you

Nen,

Excuse the fact that I haven't gone all the way back here but what was your starting weight of phyllodes? I have 3 Maidenii's growing at the moment which almost died in pots. Long story short they are in the ground and thriving now. They'd dropped all their phyllodes. I'd estimate around 75g of extremely dry phyllodes with no residual color that I have in a container.

I might try this out of interest.

^^..it's in service..but thanks Sphrorange..

but yeah no need to kill trees..
.

Tryptallmine..this tek isn't based on any specific extraction or quantity, it is,
as Sphorange deduced, aquired knowledge distilled..it's the sort of thing i used to play around with in my 20s..see the info thread for phyllode percentages of various species

i haven't been very specific in what procedure people 'should' use in this thread,
because i believe to master extraction, one has to understand the inherent process..the rationale of what is being done and why..and this applies to all kinds of extractions (not specifically tryptamines), then one is in a position to make decisions in situ, which is more the reality of ever varying nature..trying to follow some exact tek method of quantities etc can itself lead to failure...one has to observe at all times what one is working with closely..for instance, 'what' pH cannot be expressed exactly, it requires slight adjustment depending on conditions..
.

and DreaMTripper...hi, and thank you for your interesting experimental reports

..regarding 'Clathrates' as you mentioned, this is essentially what the Polymer Matrices, i decribed in another thread, are like..this exemplifies what i mean by having to 'observe' the process..by sticking to some 'exact' formula can sometimes create such situations, and hence not work properly..also, regarding one of your posts, it is worth noting that some Fatty Alcohols (long carbon chain molecules) can be white solids, which in certain conditions can evaporate, or be broken down..more advanced (or complicated) extraction involves column partitioning with muliple solvents (of slightly different polarity attractions) and pH buffers etc, but the thoughtful and intelligent experimenter can find workarounds for all of this..extraction is an art, as chemists like benzyme and dozuki have said..it's the path not the destination which one needs to master..the method, not the objective..
.

Understood - & thank you.

I'll have an experiment with it and see what is attainable out of mere interest.

in light of quite a few people assuming floribunda a red herring after multiple failed extractions I just thought I'd make mention of an issue nen mentioned in brief some time ago regarding environmental factors

for quite a while I presumed that it was certain strains of floribunda that were active and inactive and I spent a lot of time testing trees with varying taxonomy - which may also be a factor in some cases - but after a great deal of success further out of the heavily urbanised areas with trees quite variable in appearance, I've gotten the feeling that its alkaloid production may be more sensitive to environmental factors rather than the variation of taxonomy... be it the type of soil and its ph, air quality, wind, rainfall patterns etc I am unsure - it would be great to gather some data on this as its such a commonly planted roadside tree, it produces plenty of prunable foliage and seems very reliable in the right area.. consistently producing a good quality extract with a nice 'slow' sedative effect that lingers
For a long while I had many fruitless attempts testing trees growing in built up areas in melbourne .. so its nice to finally get to know it as an ally..

few things I've noticed thus far working with floribunda ...it usually produces a yellow oil (in the case of using toluene, xylene or limonene) which is often an ordeal to scrape from the dish...crystallization with ipa seems to produce long needles which then revert to a toffee when scraped... this can be quite frustrating as far as storage goes as its so sticky and difficult get all of it out of the dish - which means it is also very difficult to weigh.. I usually have to pre-weigh a stanley blade and then wipe the extract onto it to be reweighed.

I personally don't think changa works all that well with floribunda as far as effects are concerned.. at least in the context of fuller spectrum extracts..as I mentioned there's already a slow sedative aspect to the extract which lingers enough on its own and harmalas in conjunction with various mixed plant materials seem to cloud the experience a little.. some may like this but I find it a little unclean feeling..

if i feel a leafy base needs to be utilised I actually like to dry some bippinate phyllodes from a neighbouring tree and then strip them of possible psychoactive properties by soaking in ethanol overnight, then pouring it off and letting them dry. this provides a good vehicle to handle the oils with, while minimising factors that distract from the essence of the extract.. there's a cool affinity between the two trees growing side by side and I think that using natives feels a little more 'natural' as opposed to introducing plants from other countries.. at least in the context of "essence"

I've tried a few different solvents and have certainly not found shellite good for this plant as far as attempting crystalisation.. its a funny thing..even in the case of performing double a/b extractions in which white precipitates plume out of the water with the second basing, the evaporated shellite seems to yield wierd milky beads of water amongst a clear oil.. again, this is perfectly active but even harder to scrape than the other extracts. I have heard of people getting nice crystals using shellite, but I thought I'd at least point this issue out as it seems common enough and may be responsible for people may dismissing a perfectly good extract on the grounds of it not crystalising with the use of a selective solvent like shellite..

just thought i'd report in on a recent test a friend performed on Acacia Binervata;

.Some small branches were pruned and the phyllodes plucked and ground to a powder, weighing about 400g and covered with water, ethanol and a small dash of vinegar. the stems and twigs were separated and cut into small pieces and covered with water, vinegar and ethanol.

[note: grinding the phyllodes of this species to a powder is something that will not be done again as it caused a lot of problems: a) it was very difficult to strain (even with very fine filtration) and b) it turned to a gooey muck not unlike the result of boiling cactus powder in water so it made the extraction very messy]

.after getting as much of the sludge out as possible, the texture of the water extraction was like that of a syrup. When it had cooled down a little, a small amount of NaOH was added and agitated in the mixture. A large amount of precipitation could be seen (looked differen't to that of alkaloids and the sheer bulk of it was odd.)

.150ml of xylene was added and mixed thoroughly, causing a thick emulsion. it took about 24hrs for the emulsion to clear before the solvent was then removed from the mixture. it was a deep yellow colour verging on green

.a small amount of vinegar was diluted with around 200ml water and split into 3 parts. the solvent was washed with each lot of dilute acid separately and then the pulls combined. a small amount of NaOH was added, mixed and allowed to sit. another 100ml of xylene was added to the mixture and mixed thoroughly. due to a residual amount of solvent present from the previous lot of xylene the solvent went a slight yellow colour again, but it was decided the amount was so minimal that it would unlikely affect the extract.

. xylene was separated and evaporated, yielding maybe 150mg or so (didnt weigh sorry) of an odd smelling green wax.. a small amount of the extract was vaporised with no obvious effects observed (other than a horrible taste!).. I can only imagine how much of the wax would have been present if I hadn't done the salting procedure.. what was left over was just from small residual amounts of solvent mixing in with the new lot

it concluded that what was yielded was the waxy substance that made the solvent such a deep colour. The stick yielded much the same result but it was observed when the initial boil had cooled down, that there was a waxy layer solidified on the surface - I think this was what was in the final extract

I have had this result twice now, though the first test I only used 100mg of phyllodes...will test again later in the year

I wondered if anyone had tried joshisom's tek ? https://www.dmt-nexus.me...osts&t=44251&p=2
I have never used naptha, I have always used D-limonene as the Blab tek with mhrb with good results,
I have aquired a batch of powdered Acacia confusa
is there any reason why I couldnt use D-limonene in place of naptha ?
I have both solvents but would rather use D-limo as less toxic
not sure how the limo would act when freezing ?

Yeah it will be fine to use but alkaloids won't precipitate in the freezer.

Ahh I see so it would be a case of crashing it out with a fasi solution ? to precipitate? and carry on as per the blab tek from that stage prehaps ??
interesting.. d limo is a non polar solvent though right?

I have some good naptha so might see how it goes for me, Ive not tried freeze precip before sounds interesting
Thanks for the reply DreaMTripper